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Subject: Re: What is the biggest reason it is hard to switch over for you to water b

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Message Thread:

What is the biggest reason it is hard to switch over for you to water base

9/12/24       
Frank Garrido  Member

Website: http://www.cabinethero.com

I have always used solvent base finishes for years especially conversion varnish , but honestly the strong odor and the harmful acid catalyst of conversion varnishes is just too much for everyone . Me and my employees , even the customer after installation. It really takes a while before the strong acid eye burning smell goes away.
Thats just one reason for switching over to water base makes sense to me.
The quality and advancements in these coatings are on an upward trend so learning how to achieve the type of finish I want is really what I needed to do .
There are definitely some challenges in using the water base for most of my finishing, but I believe it is worth it in the long run.

9/13/24       #2: What is the biggest reason it is ha ...
Chemmy

Can understand your frustration, especially with catylized used coatings.!! I have used just about every finish that came to market over a 50+ year career. Back in the 60's through 70's, almost all of our finishing was done with Nitro cellulose and acrylics, there were no viable multi component finishes for wood finishing at that point. When they did start becoming available, I tried them all, found a few I was happy with, and finished with them on those occasions where the clients, (mainly designers, Architects, or cabinet shops,) who were also working with like clients.!
But it didn't take long to realize the drawbacks of them and their use, especially when it came to patching( touch up and repair)
and also there removal, which was very expensive and time consuming as compared to the evaporative finished of old.!
The big move to these new, so called improved finishes, which were being touted as more resistant to damages than the evaporative ones came about by the push from those clients mentioned, because their clients were asking for finishes with such improved protective properties as scratch, water, alcohol, resistance that would greatly exceed the nitro and acrylic ones.
And a good number of them did so...."but"... at the cost of being much more costly to repair and to remove, as well and especially of still not being impervious to the damages that the clients were looking for.!! The truth was that for many substrates, especially wood, even thick glass, would not totally stop surface damage from being an eyesore on the surfaces it covered, it could itself be scratched fairly easy by attache' cases, etc..!!
Being a well trained touch up repairman and finisher / refinisher, I decided in the late 80's, to return to my roots, and stopped using most every finish except for the old evaporative ones, and 2 occasional plural component ones when it was either do so or lose the client and the work. But the lessons they taught me were invaluable, the name of the game for me became showing and promoting to my clients, ( in other words "teaching" them) the pitfalls of the plural component vs. Evaporative coatings as to long term cost, and still not achieving, that which they and their clients were looking for or expecting.!! It's not very hard to make up samples to show just how easily finishes can be damaged and how difficult, respective!y, that each one can be repaired, be it in shop or onsite especially..!! I later did the same with the Aqueous coatings, but with the brunt of the difference being on and with their comparative clarity and DOI..( distinction of image) etc.,
Which is why I refused to change over to their use.
That said, the only problem that remains is having a shop that is equipped with the best state of the art air handling and filtering and VOC for removing capabilities, to meet the hazardous conditions the evaporative finishes must meet, as well as a drying room to evaporate the volatile fumes, within a short period of time for quick packing, shipping, and installation without further objectionable gassing off of long trapped toxic fumes.
I have no desire to try and convince or argue about what I'm writing, it is always up to each to decide what they think or believe as to how they want to handle these things as they come up, I'm just stating that this was what worked best for me, and if for some reason I was to get back into doing this, what my reasons for continuing to use those time tested coatings would be.!!
Sincerely,
Chemmy

9/13/24       #3: What is the biggest reason it is ha ...
Frank Garrido  Member

Website: http://www.cabinethero.com

Thanks for your take on this Chemmy and for what has worked for you. I do relate to a lot of the finishing aspects you described.

9/16/24       #4: What is the biggest reason it is ha ...
Marcus Member

Website: https://woodworkingaurora.com/custom-cabinets/

I usually use Tried and True original wood finish for about 80% of my work. It is fairly priced and contains beeswax and polymerized linseed oil, also, it has a nice scent, no acidity to it at all. It's also FDA-certified so its great for cutting boards and such, if that's the kind of thing you do. I use it for just about everything furniture-wise, I have other stains for stairs, doors, and things like that.

9/17/24       #5: What is the biggest reason it is ha ...
Frank Garrido  Member

Website: http://www.cabinethero.com

Mainly working primarily on cabinets but occasionally furniture pieces.

9/19/24       #6: What is the biggest reason it is ha ...
NJ Furniture Mart  Member

Website: https://www.njfurnituremart.com/

The biggest reason for switching from solvent-based to water-based finishes is the harmful odor and acid catalyst of conversion varnishes, which affects both workers and customers. The strong eye-burning smell takes time to dissipate after installation. Water-based finishes are a healthier alternative with advancements in quality, making the switch more appealing. While there are challenges in mastering the desired finish with water-based coatings, the long-term benefits, including safety and environmental friendliness, make it worth the effort to transition.

 

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