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Glazing large flat areas

9/30/15       
Kevin Member

I am having a heck of a time glazing over white cv without it looking splotchy. This job is matching some factory cabs and I just can't get the large areas (i.e. end panels) to look even. I have done the face frames and they look fine. I have tried a washcoat over the white, as well as thinning the glaze more and more with minereal spirits, but just can't get it perfect. I wipe on/wipe off as fast as humanly possible, but no luck. The cab panels done at the factory have NO streaks or splotching. Any advice? Thanks.

9/30/15       #2: Glazing large flat areas ...
JeffA

You could try and make a shader to match the color. I have done this for large flat panels and it has worked. Just watch for the overspray build up if there are corners.

9/30/15       #3: Glazing large flat areas ...
Robert Member

If you are making up your own glaze, will you post the ingredients ?

9/30/15       #4: Glazing large flat areas ...
Kevin Member

Thanks for the responses. I was actually thinking along the same lines as Jeff, trying to get an off white cv made that matches the color of the white/glaze combo. The glaze and cv is direct from from the cabinet manufacturer. Could not obtain the brand or ingredients from their tech support.

9/30/15       #5: Glazing large flat areas ...
ThomasFR

Kevin, try a few drops (or more) of boiled linseed oil to the reduced glaze. work on test panels to see of new mix is receptive to top coat. May require longer dry time before top coat. Good luck.

9/30/15       #6: Glazing large flat areas ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Kevin,

Are you glazing the entire surface with a uniform coat of color? Or are you wiping the glaze to let it hang up in the profiles? Not sure what you mean by splotchy...?

How are you applying the glaze? How long do you let the CV set-up before glazing?

If you're trying to get a uniform layer of glaze color then applying it like a toner with a spray gun will work. I think that's what JeffA has in mind. Since you don't know the properties of the glaze, you should sandwich it between coats of catalyzed vinyl sealer to be safe.

Sounds like you skipped the test samples stage, including an adhesion test.

9/30/15       #7: Glazing large flat areas ...
Kevin Member

The goal is a uniform coat of glaze color on the flat areas, with some hang up in the details (beaded face frames in this case). The glaze clearly alters the original color, but is only noticably present in the details where it hangs up. I am applying with a brush in the details, then using a rag on the flat areas. This is where the "splotchiness" comes in. Looks like areas just didn't get wiped back off evenly enough. I am following a glazing schedule recomended by my chemcraft guy, which doesn't involve vinyl sealer. I allow the CV to dry one hour, then glaze, let that dry one hour, then topcoat.
I did multiple test boards, including a cross hatch test for adhesion. Just didn't do a big enough board I guess.

9/30/15       #8: Glazing large flat areas ...
Kevin Member

Forgot to mention that I also tried it with a clear washcoat over the color coat. Better results, but not perfect.

9/30/15       #9: Glazing large flat areas ...
Zach Froble  Member

Website: http://www.lyndandesigns.com

I use a product from the autobody supply house that is a surface prep. It cleans up the excess glaze but does not affect the pigmented cv. Cleans up any unwanted glaze that has dried or smeared. Give it a shot and test with your topcoat. I have used a few different brands with no problems.

Zach

9/30/15       #10: Glazing large flat areas ...
chad

It sounds like you are saying it is drying before you can even the glaze out. Try wiping the surface with a mineral spirits after the glaze has dried.

9/30/15       #11: Glazing large flat areas ...
joe

kevin,

Your not allowing enough time for you base coat to dry prior to applying your glaze....the Chemcraft guy is giving you bad advise... What brand glaze are you applying some can be aggressive and will tend to bite on films that are not quite dry enough, others with slower oils not so much...I would break your system down with base coating one day and allowing an overnight dry then Glaze the following morning you will have much better results

9/30/15       #12: Glazing large flat areas ...
Lyndon

I agree with joe. You are getting bad advice. Your CV needs to dry overnight before you apply the glaze. What you are seeing is the glaze "biting" in some areas and not in others. Letting the CV dry overnight will make a difference. Also are you using dry or wet glaze?

10/1/15       #13: Glazing large flat areas ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Kevin.

Here's an alternative.

After glazing the profiles you can apply the color to the rest of the surface by making a thin toner/shader. Take a little of the glaze and reduce it with the thinner you usually use with your clear coat. Then add a little of the clear coat to act as a binder.

For example, start with this mix and adjust the amount of glaze you use to get the right color;

  • 1 oz. of glaze
  • 24 oz. of thinner
  • 6 oz. of clear coat

Do a spray test to see if you need to add more glaze or reduce it more. The nice thing about making it very thin (very little finish) is you can add more than one coat without building up a thick film.

If you get the color just right and are confident in your spray technique, you can skip the toner and just add the color to your final clear coat. You will need to add some thinner to the glaze before mixing it in with the clear coat just to make it compatible. This approach will save the added work of spraying a toner and separate topcoat.

If you're committed to applying the glaze by hand, the trick is to keep the entire surface wet long enough to wipe the glaze evenly. That means your rag will need to be pretty wet and you'll have to experiment with how much mineral spirits you need. Applying the glaze with a spray gun before you wipe it makes it easier - you start with an even wet layer and work from there.

10/1/15       #14: Glazing large flat areas ...
Kevin Member

Thanks all for the help. Using the glaze as a toner is a new one for me. Sounds like it might be the way to go. If I were to let the cv dry overnight, how do I scuff for adhesion(of topcoats) without the glaze highlighting the scratch pattern? That is something I've never had much luck with. Thanks again for all the input.

10/1/15       #15: Glazing large flat areas ...
Denny J

One thing that can help with keeping the glaze from biting in is to shoot a coat of clear over the pigmented prior to the glaze coat. Then shoot a final clear over that. This can all be done within the recoat window and gives a more even look.

Personally, for that type of thing I would look into something like MLCampbells amazing glaze. You can spray that on and take off what you want after it dries which makes it easier to get a consistent look.
A few companies had a WB equivalent back during the glaze rage and that was all I used 90% of the time.

10/1/15       #16: Glazing large flat areas ...
Jim Conklin  Member

Website: http://www.jhconklin.net

We glaze table tops rather often. We tend to use a 'furniture glaze' consistency. More like a thick stain than a syrup - thin enough to spray.

Four things have helped get it even.

1. Spray it on - gets things covered fast and evenly.

2. A fast dirty rag wipe to get the bulk off.

3. A spritz bottle of mineral spirits and a wide wallpaper brush to stroke out the smears. We brush initially in a chevron pattern, then finish along the grain (or the length, whatever.) Pressure on the brush tends to influence how much glaze hangs. As the brush loads, rub the build up off on a clean rag. As the glaze tacks and starts to grab too much, use the spritzer to keep it fluid.

4. If too much color use a pink Mirlon abrasive pad to stroke up some of the glaze. We've done this after 5 minutes and up to 5 hours after applying the glaze.

10/2/15       #17: Glazing large flat areas ...
JeffA

Just a note if using glaze as a shader. Make sure you strain it, glazes don't always have a fine grind of pigments to use as a shader. From experience.

10/2/15       #18: Glazing large flat areas ...
Matt Calnen

Last shop i worked at we used kerosene as a thinner to give better working properties for large areas

10/4/15       #19: Glazing large flat areas ...
Mike Fuson

I've posted the same question here before. I used to glaze over pigmented precat with dirty splotchy results and although I never had a complaint I really wanted a cleaner look. Through the help of guys on here I learned that the glaze was biting into the paint. The vinyl washcoat that some told me to do didn't work for me but a washcoat of cv did. It sealed the paint so that the glaze doesn't bite. On larger areas I do like chad said and sprits a little mineral spirits on it and go back over it again to lighten it up and even it out.

10/10/15       #20: Glazing large flat areas ...
Bart

@Kevin, Lots of good advice you're getting here. As for the scuffing. I always sand with 400 then scotchbrite (purple) real good with the grain.

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