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pigmented conversion varnish or tinted pre cat

3/12/16       
Ryan Groff Member

Hi everyone,
I have currently been using Kemvar plus for my sealer and for my pigmented finish I use a tinted pre cat lacquer over top, it looks great I'm really happy with it, but I am concerned about yellowing over time, but don't know how significant the yellowing will be it is a sherwinn williams product from the chemical coatings division it says it has UV absorbers in it to prevent yellowing, is this something to be concerned about? My other option is CV, I have never sprayed it and I am told it is a little more fussy with application and in the winter keeping the temp right makes a huge difference, etc.I am getting into some higher end kitchens and such, what do you guys use and recommend ?

3/13/16       #3: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Leo G

Learn to use CV

3/13/16       #4: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Robert Member

Ryan, Leo speaks not with fork tongue. The CV is a far better choice of coatings in more ways than one.

3/14/16       #5: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
kevin

i would like to add that sherwin williams CV is alot more forgiving than their lacquer when it comes to climate. Lacquer will blush when its cold or wet. Ive never had an issue in the many years ive sprayed CV from hot, cold, wet, or dry conditions. Not "fussy" at all. Just have to make sure you catalyze correctly and use what you mix or dispose of it. You dont want to get into the problems associated with using CV that was catalyzed a couple days ago, trust me.
Also, its a bit tougher to make repairs so make sure your spray technique is on point. If you get drips or sags be preparred to wait a day before you can scrape it flush with a razor, scuff, and recoat. Other than that, its a no brainer. CV is the way to go!

3/14/16       #6: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Ryan Groff Member

Thanks Kevin for the response, very helpful. One more thing id like to ask is do you have to keep the shop temp continuously up for it to cure properly, When i leave the shop i turn the temp down to about 55 degrees, it sounds like to me in your experience this is not an issue?

3/14/16       #7: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
kevin

not an issue. CV is an acid cured product. Sure, it will cure faster when its warmer, but it will cure regardless. We just went through a few weeks of cold (45-50 degrees in south florida is COLD TO US!!) and had no issues whatsoever. Take into consideration that it was 85 degrees one day and 50 the next. No issues.

Basically, everything sprayed today is ready to stack/pack the next morning.

3/14/16       #8: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Leo G

CV is affected by cold like that. So, 6 months down the line when the finish is checking and cracking, you'll know why.

3/14/16       #9: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Website: finishing.tips

Every new product you spray will have some learning curve involved and you'll have to make some minor adjustments to thinning, spray gun settings, or spray technique. It's normal and not a big deal. The same is true for different products from the same manufacturer as well as the same type of product from different manufacturers.

You should get the tech data sheet for whatever product you use and follow the instructions. The amount of catalyst varies by brand as does the pot life and dry to stack time. One thing that is universal for ALL catalyzed finishes is the requirement to make sure everything is at least 65 degrees Fahrenheit when you spray it and while it's curing. If you go below that, the finish will not cure properly and may fail prematurely as Leo pointed out.

I attached data sheets from 3 brands of conversion varnish. They all have temperature related requirements that are highlighted.

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

Becker_Acroma_Matador_White_CV_TDS___Temperature_Highlight.pdf

3/14/16       #10: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Website: finishing.tips

Here are the other 2 data sheets;

3/14/16       #11: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Website: finishing.tips

Not sure what the problem is, but the data sheets aren't attaching to the post - something to do with the forum software here.



Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

Chemcraft_Chemlife_Clear_Conversion_Varnish_TDS___Temperature_Highlighted_3.pdf



Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

Sherwin_Williams_SherWood_WW_CV_TDS___Temperature_Highlighted_3.pdf

3/14/16       #12: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
kevin

Hmm.. maybe i should call up all the hotels ive covered in paneling and ask why they havent called me regarding warranty issues with checking or any other finish failures... Then again, we are in south florida, and cold is rare. This year i think we got a total of 5 weeks under 70 degrees.

But i stand by my statement. I have not had any issues with cure time due to cold.
And ive been doing this for quite a while.

Again, 47 weeks out of the year here is 80 degrees + ... but we dont stop working during those 5 that are below 70. And we sure as heck dont own a heater !!!

3/14/16       #13: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Website: finishing.tips

I could use a week or two of that sunshine right about now....

3/15/16       #14: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Mike

Kevin,no heater? YOU suck :)
I have 4 furnaces in shop and one for office!

3/20/16       #15: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
jimmy cream

ill share something with you guys . I've made test boards with CV .......breaking all the temp rules , and the over-mill rules .

one board was sprayed and allowed to flash , then immediately set outside in about 40 degree temp ( drizzly/rainy also , but not rained ON ) ; then dried / cured overnight in un-heated attached garage . another was cured in my basement...temp un-known , but well below the suggested range . both those boards were monitored for months...no problems . I should look around....maybe I still have them .

Ive also done test boards with HUGE over-millages . if i remember correctly , one was in the 8 mil range ( 3 coats I think) . and yes , Im talking dry mils ..... three coats shot at something like 6 to 8 mils each ( measured with a wet-mil gauge ) . that one I kept an eye on for a few months also....no problem last time I saw it . pretty sure I still have those , so Ill dig them out again . I think I did cat-primer/tinted CV and clear CV samples like that .

Ive never done over/under catalyzed samples , but Im pretty sure I know what the results would be .

also did some over-mil samples with 2 part urethane . poured on and measured at over 20 mils as it was setting up .

with that being said ....no , Im not saying that the rules of catalyzed coatings are meant to be broken . I follow them religiously .

3/20/16       #16: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Leo G Member

I've got my own tests going on myself.

Had a drawer front that was coated properly with MagnaKlear, a pre cat. It was a few years old. I decided to spray it with Krystal, a post cat. I expected it to wrinkle almost immediately. But nothing. It is now about 6 month since I sprayed it and it's still in great condition.

Just the other day I had another drawer front from the same batch and I put Polarion on it, a 2k Poly. Again, I expected it to do something catastrophic, but nothing. But that was only a few days ago. So we'll see what becomes of that too.

3/21/16       #17: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Lucky Louie

Life is great until it isn't. 5 out of 6 people surveyed following a game of russian roulette said it was fun. The 6th person was not available for comment.

3/21/16       #18: pigmented conversion varnish or tin ...
Mastercabman

Lucky Louie
That was funny!!
I myself don't understand why would anyone take a chance with finishing just because someone had no problems with their experience after not following instructions


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