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Cerusing with glaze/ does a good water based exist

1/31/17       
Kevin Member

Website: http://www.finepointcabinetry.com

So im new to using water based coatings and made the horrible mistake of using mohawks finishing glaze between coats of water based top coats, obviously it just peeled right off. so i stripped the job down and tried general finishes water based glaze affects and it worked yet it was sooooooo time consuming. the problem ive noticed with water based glazes it dries super fast and it takes allot of rubbing to take the finish off the top and for it to stay recessed in the grain. and if you wipe it off to fast your just taking it out of the grain, defeating the purpose. does anyone know of a better water based product to use to be able to achieve the finish im going for? or some better methods with out having to use solvent based finishes?
attached i have the finish i got, came out great but god knows i lost a but load of money on that finish.


View higher quality, full size image (3024 X 3024)

2/1/17       #2: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Dave Edgerton  Member

That looks amazing! I've used the Gf primer and sprayed it on and then sanded it back to get similar results. I cut it with water about 5o percent. It may not look as good as what you did with yours

2/1/17       #3: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Bart

That looks nice Kevin. You're right on big projects it gets a little crazy with it drying out so fast. GF makes a retarder. After that episode I switched to retarder. I haven't done a big glazing job since but it does give you more time.

2/1/17       #4: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Pat

I've experienced the same problem. The extender/retarder helps, but not much. Golden Paints used to make a nice WB glaze in pre-mixed colors. They discontinued that exact product, but I plan on trying this next time:

Golden Slow Drying Medium

2/1/17       #5: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Nick

depending on your wb finish. try spraying some dirtex (squeeze trigger bottle) on your wiping rag to reopen and clean-up your glaze. this method has worked great for me with wb glaze on SW Kem aqua plus allowed to dry over night . it did not work well on any Target product as it lifted the finish as well as the glaze so test first.

2/1/17       #6: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Pat

I also learned today that ML Campbell sells a WB glaze and a line of WB dyes and stains that I haven't tried yet. I'm trying to arrange a demo of their new WB products with my Atlantic Plywood rep. Kevin, feel free to PM me if you want to come down for that.

Cheers,
Pat

2/2/17       #7: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Denny J

Gemini used to make a WB spray dry wipe glaze that dried very quick and then let you remove what you didnt want. That was my favorite product for glazing.

I believe other companies make a similar product,some that bite harder than others.

The products are similar to the mlcampbell amazing glazes.

2/2/17       #8: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Travis W Member

Kevin,
Great job on the finish. While I can't add much in response to your question would you mind sharing your finish schedule on that cabinet. We've been getting several requests lately for similar finishes on White Oak. We have gotten close but not as good as yours appears to be.

Thanks
Travis W

2/2/17       #10: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Kevin Member

Website: http://www.finepointcabinetry.com

Thank you everyone for your suggestions, i will definitely be looking into all those products. Denny J, ive used those fast drying spray glazes before but years ago before i really new much about finishing at all. we used them to antique corners in molding then used a brillow pad to remove access, do you think i would penetrate the tight nit grain of rift white oak?
Travis W- my finishing schedule went as follows.
1. since using water based products i dampened the wood to prevent grain raise
2. sanded with 150 to take down the high grain
3. wire brushed all the surfaces by hand (you can use and angle grinder with an attachment to really penetrate the grain, really all depends on the look your trying to achieve)
4. sanded with 220 to a nice fine smooth finish, while making sure not to over sand.
5. i used an oil based stain on this job, let the stain dry for three days
6. prior to sealing i wiped all the surfaces down with 1:1 water and denatured alcohol to remove any access mineral spirits on surface ( as water based products do not bind to still drying oil based stains)
7. 1 coat of sealer, then light scuff with 320
8. 2nd seal coat, not sanding this coat because i wanted true transparency to the hard wood after wiping off the the glaze. i found if you sand the sealer it just gives more of a surface for the glaze to bite to, which i didnt want.
9. this is where it sucked. wiped the GF glaze effects on small sections at a time of my pieces bc of the dry time. this took allot of practice to get the timing right but id say after 2-3 min or so i started wiping what i could of with a rag then went back into it with a red scotch brite, having a cup of water next to me keeping it damp. be careful not to flood the surface with water because it will end up removing the glaze from in the grain.
10. one last seal coat which i then scuffed
11. finally 2 coats of top coat.
Its a very time consuming finish! make sure you charge for it. Believe me i learned that the hard way.

2/2/17       #11: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Robert Member

White Latex Paint, thinned down works wonders.

2/2/17       #12: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Rick Mosher  Member

Website: profinisher.blogspot.com/

For what it's worth I used Camger Coating Hi Hide Water Based Sprayfill #202-010-3-1

I posted my basic process on my blog a while back

Do the Ceruse

2/2/17       #13: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Pat

I've always applied glaze on top of a clearcoat vs a sealer. The slickness of the clearcoat makes it easier to wipe the excess glaze off. Still sucks, though. I've been hoping this finish goes out of style before I have to do it again.

3/10/17       #14: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Matt

Bust the grain open as much as possible with steel brushes. Topcoat with 1 very modest seal coat of clear sealer, then scuff sand it with 320.

Thin down your waterbased primer and rag it on like stain over the top of your clear sealer coat. Wipe off excess while it's wet, following the grain.

Use a gentle sander like a Surfprep or maybe a fine sanding sponge to knock off excess haze or dust, leaving the white in the grain.

Topcoat with a few coats more of your preferred clearcoat.

3/10/17       #15: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Matt

By the way, i can assure everyone that the two most important steps in this whole process is to 1) Bust the grain open as much as possible with steel brushes, and 2) Spray a modest coat of clear on (we use conversion varnish thinned 10%).

You can find white powder glazes at many finish suppliers, but it's almost entirely talc powder, titanium dioxide, and naptha.

Ragging them on forces it into the grain quite quickly

3/15/17       #16: Cerusing with glaze/ does a good wa ...
Jim Conklin  Member

Website: http://www.jhconklin.net

Stain and seal the wood as you will. Apply the WB glaze as you will - retarders or not. Get rid of the excess with Scotchbrite red abrasive pads or Abralon pink pads.

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