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Table Finish Advice

10/8/20       
Drew Zembruski Member

Website: http://artifexhome.com

Hello all,

I am a cabinetmaker and not a finisher. I only self-finish in certain situations, including one that is currently going sideways.

I will provide more detail below but the question is: can I achieve the color the client now wants on the heart pine table I have built and delivered if I strip/sand the whitewashed finish to bare wood (huge loss of time notwithstanding), or will I always be fighting the wood's natural hues and should just remake a new top out of white oak or similar?

The table is reclaimed "heart pine" (not sure if it is longleaf pine, heart pine, or just old growth pine; it was flooring in a factory here in Connecticut once upon a time), photos below of the top and bottom after glue-up while still unfinished. After approval from the client, it was whitewashed with the same color as her kitchen cabinets and then clear coated with a waterbased lacquer (emtech 6300) to avoid yellowing, photo below.

I delivered last week and now the client (who has not paid the balance due, but that business mistake on my end is a topic for another thread) is complaining that the table "is throwing off way too much pink", and that she wants to avoid "pink, purple, orange, or green" undertones. She would like to change the finish to match brown/gray barnboard she has on her fireplace wall elsewhere in the house and sent me a link to this: https://angelamariemade.com/how-to-create-a-weathered-wood-gray-finish/

My question is will a finisher be able to achieve the brown/gray weathered look she desires on heart pine? If she is averse to the pink, purple, green, and orange undertones, is there any way to fully obscure those? Is the only way to achieve her desired faux-weather barnboard look to start with a wood that isn't already pink, orange, and green?

Thanks for your responses.


View higher quality, full size image (2016 X 1512)


View higher quality, full size image (2016 X 1512)


View higher quality, full size image (1280 X 1280)

10/8/20       #2: Table Finish Advice ...
rich c

Before you spend another second talking about changing the finish with the client, get your final payment. Then give them an estimate for taking off the finish and redoing it. If they won't pay the balance first, talk to your lawyer and don't worry about the change. Going darker is much easier than going lighter and they can contract a finisher.

10/8/20       #3: Table Finish Advice ...
Adam

It wasn’t full of old nail holes it would surprise me if that is reclaimed out of an old mill shop in CT. Those are new growth planks. Look at the wide growth rings.

You will be fighting that wood until you give up. Build a new one.

I can’t imagine how this was a miscommunication problem. Sounds like she completely changed her mind. That discussion would be better suited for the Business forum.

10/9/20       #4: Table Finish Advice ...
Drew Z Member

Website: http://www.artifexhome.com

Thanks for your replies Rich and Adam. I will not be doing any more work until payment comes through but want to be able to clearly articulate to the client what her options are to proceed (None of which will be free of charge).

It was not a communication issue Adam you are right -- she just changed her mind. After seeing the final product she decided it wasn't reclaimed wood she wanted, but a color match to her barnboard fireplace surround. Oh well.

I will propose/quote making a new top out of a more suitable material for her desired color and have my finisher achieve the barnboard look she's after. We'll see what she says. As Rich pointed out, she may just want to find a finisher herself and deal with it.

10/9/20       #5: Table Finish Advice ...
cbww

Website: http://cherrybrookwoodworks.com

Sounds like a crappy situation. My thoughts- you have to much natural color on that pine top to get a uniform white wash unless it is very white. The gray weathered look? maybe.

I doubt you will get the remaining balance as the client is not happy with it and I bet she will continue to be a pain in the a@@. The fact that she sent you a stupid "how to video" means she has zero respect for your skill set and no confidence in you. What if you refer her to your finisher and she still isnt happy after what he does? Or even if she is, you still may not get paid for your work. Tough position. I would consider telling her you are coming to pick up the table, get it our of her house and give her the money back. You would atleast have a table of some value and you get rid of this client. Cut your loss before it gets worse.

Things would be different if you were paid in full. Nothing leaves my shop unless I have a check or know the client very well. I dont do deliveries. I use a local mover and on one or two occasions have sent emails saying that we will have to postpone the move because I have not been paid yet. The payment in full is in my proposal/agreement that every client signs so there is no suprise. Did you happen to do a sample first for approval?

I hope everything works out for you.

10/9/20       #6: Table Finish Advice ...
Drew Z Member

Website: http://www.artifexhome.com

All very good points cbww, thanks for your input — she also made a comment how her house has so much natural light it’s ‘less forgiving’ than my shop. It’s clear she believes she’s dealing with an idiot and as a result someone she can make unreasonable demands of. She was a referral from a very good client, which I took to mean she would similarly be trustworthy. Now I’m learning my lesson.

My communication to her will be I can come get the table and refund her deposit, or she can pay the balance and then I can quote the refinishing. I did provide a sample — in fact about 8-10 to really nail down what finish she wanted on the pine (different paint washes, tannin reaction finishes for aging, many different looks including a few grays). So I have the approved whitewashed sample.

10/9/20       #7: Table Finish Advice ...
cbww

If the samples match the table which I am going to bet they do. Then I would stand my ground a bit more and not give in. Compare the samples to the table in her house and confront her on the payment.

10/9/20       #8: Table Finish Advice ...
Matt Calnen

I agree that you should demand payment before anything other work happens. I would not give her a penny back, and if you gave her deposit back and took the table back, how much time and effort would you have in trying to sell that table, and what would you get for it? Probably less than the deposit, and the wood top looks like framing material from Home Depot, which will probably give you trouble in the long run. Best case scenario in my opinion is she doesn’t pay, no warranty work for you, and you both part ways.

Boy, am I starting to sound like Rich?

10/15/20       #9: Table Finish Advice ...
Drew Z Member

Website: http://www.artifexhome.com

The client has paid in full and will be paying for a new top to be fabricated.

Matt - I was fairly surprised when we selected the reclaimed pine, it did look like a thicker, more nail hole’d pile of wood from Home Depot but it was what she wanted... oh well. Without breadboard ends (client didn’t want them) I used slotted steel C channel let into the bottom to allow it grow and shrink while staying flat but in our contract specified cupping and warping would not be covered by warranty due to the species selected and design and size desired. Although that shouldn’t be an issue with the new top which will likely be white oak.

10/16/20       #10: Table Finish Advice ...
Kevin Dunphy

Website: http://www.kdunphy.com

Say yes you need to do the table at your shop
Hold the table till you get payment see how they like using the table being used as hostage for payment

One thing I did or learn a long time ago and still do when everything is made and stain client comes to the shop and inspects

10/16/20       #11: Table Finish Advice ...
Jonathan Mahnken

Website: http://www.mahnkencabinets.com

to some degree the pink will go away after a couple of months. Even non yellowing yellows slightly over time. You could also use a toner to shift the color pretty easily. Jeff at target coatings could probably help you make a toner that would kill the pink.

10/16/20       #12: Table Finish Advice ...
Jonathan Mahnken

Website: http://www.mahnkencabinets.com

not sure what you used for stain and sealer, but with that look you want to try to be "closer to the wood" Thin your color, Thin your sealer, and do a flat topcoat. This will also help in the time it takes for the waterbased system to mature out of that purple/pink/blue stage

10/20/20       #13: Table Finish Advice ...
Nick

Sticky situation!...l'll get the lesson learned part out of the way first, always make samples and get oks in writing before any finishing is started
Not being in the loop it's easy to give a opinion, so here goes; give her deposit back, get your table and get as far away from her as you can, a person who takes no responsibility for their decisions is unlikely to change.
Yes, it's not hard to make a pine table grey for a experienced finisher.
Toning is not a good idea for a dining table, 1 scratch and you have a touch-up problem that will take a master finisher to fix.
I would start over; strip, sand and wide belt, dye lightly black with just a bit of green, stain grey and finish. I'd use a acrylic 2k poly (MLC Polarion for example), chances are using a single component WB will have your phone ringing and customer requesting a refinish within a year or two.

10/20/20       #14: Table Finish Advice ...
Nick

PS; Staining white with a touch of black and green first, sealing then glazing grey would be a easier approach to get get a grey but opens you up once again to a possible future touch-up problem.

10/21/20       #15: Table Finish Advice ...
Drew Z Member

Website: http://www.artifexhome.com

Thanks everyone for the replies. To consolidate my above replies, we did have an approved sample on an offcut of the table material itself; the client just changed her mind. She has paid in full and will be paying for the top to be re-made. I will be using my finisher this time and have images she would like to match; I'll let him pick the species if he has a preference and we'll go from there. Thanks to all for your replies and help!


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