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CV not curing properly over bleached Oak.

4/24/22       
Matthew

Like the title says, I'm finishing a dining set in Oak that has been completely bleached with two-part bleach. First coat of CV was still a bit tacky the next day, but I did a test on one of the chair seats, scuffing and putting on a new coat. Dried nice and hard like normal, but with a few surface bubbles, like the previous coat was still offgassing? I scuffed everything and let it sit for a day. The next day, I shot a new coat on everything, scuffed the test seat and put a thin final coat on it. I let this all sit for two days.

Today, the test seat was dry and hard and perfect looking. The table surface is nice and dry, looks great. The remaining seats were still slightly tacky, so I scuffed them and finished out like I had the test seat. The chair frames themselves are dry... but maybe not hard yet?

Anyway, the thin final coat I put on all the seats slightly wrinkled and lifted the previous coat. Never seen this with CV, especially not after it sat for a couple of days.

I'm starting to wonder if I didn't massively screw up by not neutralizing the bleach. It's the only thing I can think of, but I don't understand why certain parts of this set are drying and curing properly while others aren't.

I am using Gemini's GemVar CV. I thin it 10%-20%, and I add retarder. Thanks.

4/25/22       #3: CV not curing properly over bleache ...
shenendoah

Matthew,

- What type of bleach did you use?
- How many coats?
- If multiple, what was the elapsed time between coats?
- Did you use heat to accelerate the drying cycle ?

4/25/22       #4: CV not curing properly over bleache ...
Matthew

Hey there.

It is self-made two-part wood bleach. A dilution of lye and 27% (I think) peroxide.

I did two coats on the chairs, one coat on the table. Each coat dried at least a day, I think total dry time was like four days.

I didn't use any direct heat, as in a gun or anything, but the pieces sat underneath my shop's heater at 70 degrees for this period of time.

Today, the seats that were wrinkling were almost perfectly smooth... only a couple of them showed any signs of lifting the previous coat. Everything else is nice and dry and hard.

4/26/22       #5: CV not curing properly over bleache ...
shenendoah

Matthew,

I am assuming you used lye flake, saturating until flake would no loner dissolve into the ( hot? ) water. And that is probably where your problem arose. You left enough dry time - though also having a moving air flow along with the heat would encourage a thorough drying. But after two coats neutralizing with a healthy dose of white vinegar would be the standard rule of thumb. Hopefully, you won't have issues down the road. Good luck!

4/26/22       #6: CV not curing properly over bleache ...
RichC

You didn't do anything to neutralize the lye? No water or white vinegar wash?

https://woodworkly.com/how-to-neutralize-red-tones-in-wood/

4/30/22       #7: CV not curing properly over bleache ...
Rick Mosher  Member

Website: profinisher.blogspot.com/

Conversion Varnish has an acid catalyst, your lye neutralized the acid and the finish didn't cure.

12/12/22       #8: CV not curing properly over bleache ...
Jon W Member

Yup, what Rick said. Alkaline lye/peroxide residue reacted with the acid catalyst, neutralizing it and preventing it from reacting with the CV and polymerizing. Subsequent layers are trying to harden, shrink and cure over a soft unreacted CV with is causing your wrinkles.

you've now got a lot of CV which has a reccomended max dry film thickness of 6 mils before possible cracking problems start to occur. Also, I'm not sure if the reaction of the catalyst with the lye/peroxide will allow for the formaldehyde molecules to release from the acid compound and off gas properly, so you may have excess formaldehyde in your coating (anyone with a chemistry degree can feel free to chime in on that possible scenario).

Your best bet at this point is to strip it, vinegar wash, rinse, sand and start over.


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