I am finishing mdf cab doors.
Air temp in shop low 70’s. Humidity around 50%.
Base is clawlock post cat. Top coat will be resistant cv.
Catalyzed with MLC’s low voc formula which is 5% ratio.
Thinned with 10% lac thinner.
Gun is black widow hte with 1.3 tip.
Air and fluid settings wide open. Test spray fan at 6” distance was tiny, 6” x 1” with poor atomization. Increasing air pressure didn’t help.
Thinned to 25%.
Same spray fan.
Swapped tip/needle/air cap to 1.7.
Sprayed test panel. The material dries as soon as it hits the panel leaving a surface that would be perfect as non-skid on a boat deck.
Thinned to 50%. Better but still terrible. This stuff is drying 10 times faster than the fastest nitro lacquer I’ve ever sprayed.
Does anyone have a solution?

Thanks
Timmer

Sounds like temperature/humidity is really good
1.7 tip is a better choice for primer
The question is,how much material are putting down?
You mentioned the "black widow"
Is that the harbour freight spray gun?
So a gravity feed?
When adding thinner you get less of the solids and more solvent
It will evaporates faster
When spraying keep the surface wet
"Wet like a lake"

Yes harbor freight hvlp gun.

Thinned to MLC’s spec it is unusable.

I can’t imagine MLC would develop/sell a product with these performance characteristics.

Would you just keep thinning until it sprays properly?

I’m beyond 50%, and air pressure is higher than required for nitro.

Timer
Could you tell us what equipment are you using?
Compressor?
Psi settings?
I primarily use MLC product and it always turns out great

A little early to blame ML Campbell on their product when you are trying to flow a high solids primer through a cheap HF gun with a small nozzle. My guess is that lots of professionals are NOT having a dry application like you are having when they use proper equipment.

Mastercabman,
10hp compressor w/60+/- gal tank. Brand new water separator and line drier.
25' of 3/8 hose
in-line drier/filter and mini regulator at the gun.
Assuming the regulator is accurate, I've tried 20, up to 40 psi. Best results I've had were around 35psi with 60% thinner.
What setup would you use for this product?

PS, I do have an airless and graco FFLP tips in 308, 310, 312. It'd be less overspray than my HVLP at 35psi.

Rich C,
Please stay out of this topic. You're adding no value. And, if you took the time to read, you'd see that I said I can't imagine MLC developed this product to perform as I'm experiencing.

Seems like you at least need to swap reducers, add retarder, and perhaps even go up in tip or invest in a better gun.

Sounds like your losing all your solvent in the transfer.

10 hp compressor!?!
Well that rules out CFM problems!

So for me I invested into a AAA pump
I don't use gravity guns unless I'm doing a sample,very small project or touch ups
But as MarkB said
Maybe you should use a flow enhancer/retarder instead of lacquer thinner
It will help the material to flow better and gives it extra time to layout

The other thing that comes to mind is maybe the spray gun doesn't atomize as good as it claims to be
You also mentioned that you are spraying MDF doors
Have you applied a second coat?
If so,is the result still not good?
Is this the first time using clawlock?
MLC product?
Just trying to help you out
As I said,I always get good results with MLC

I forgot to ask

What kind of lacquer thinner are you using in the clawlock?

I will purchase retarder before I continue painting.

1.7mm is the largest tip available for this gun. I've had great results with it spraying clear lacquer and pigmented polyurethane. Always with the 1.3 tip.

The thinner is crown. Sold by the MLC vendor, California Paint.

I've sprayed roughly 20 doors with 2nd coat on one side. That being said, it is a smoother finish than 1st coat. Partially because I developed settings that worked better. Consumed .85 gallons (.5 paint, .35 lac thinner) for those doors.

What percent do y'all normally thin this material?

Therea no standard on reduction or retarder its all dependant on your area, climate, and equipmemt.

Its no shock your first coar waa like 80 grit sandpaper. No one knows if your doors are double refined, how well they are prepped/machined, etc.

MDF is devil wood. Id say anyone getting away with a single prime coat has a very well established routine and machining/material. The combination of crown ans raw MDF its no wonder the material is dry the instant it hits the surface.

You shouldn't use the cheap lacquer thinner to mix
You should use the MLC standard thinner
The stuff you are using is recycled lacquer thinner
Use that to clean your equipments but not for the finish
Here in Norfolk VA I pay $40 for the good stuff!
BTW,is this the first time using MLC product?

Plum creek machine grade. A step above the super refined.
Cnc machined on my 5x10 Northwood into shaker style.

Yes. First time using ml Campbell.

Timmer,

Just wondering if you have anyone close by that you can borrow a gun to try out. I think there is something wrong with your gun, is your gravity cup getting air so you don’t have a pressure lock. My sata gravity guns have a cap on the cup, if it is closed you don’t get any flow. A 1.7 tip should be plenty big enough. If you tried the product in 2 different guns and get different results it will point to the gun, if the same results it will point to your product.

The material you have sounds fine and if the company selling you the thinner says it is compatible it should be good to go.

I quit spraying MLC quite a few years ago so I am not current on their latest products. I always sprayed Krystal with an AAA pump and had fantastic results.

Just finished shooting another gallon on non-critical surfaces. It is much smoother on 2nd coat. Used a ton of paint to wet the panels Hopefully with retarder it'll work as I want.
thinned 60%.

I don't have access to another gun with a 1.7 or larger tip.

I'll post tomorrow after adding the retarder. And I'll see if they have MLC's lac thinner

I looked up AAA. without a reversatip, do you get a lot of plugs with a .011 orifice?

Thanks to everyone. I appreciate your input.

Timmer

"thinned 60%."

Holly Molly!!!!!
That's a lot!
Something's not right!
Even with flow enhancer,I only use 5-10% ratio
You need to look at another spray system!

Ya I would agree with Mastercabman , 60 % thinner is to much, you are going to end up with other problems, like solvent pop, not near enough dry mils, runs, etc.

Sounds like this gun isn't suitable for spraying the clawlock. A 1.9 tip is what you should be using to shoot this. You should be able to shoot it with 20% thinning. No use of thinning 60% with a high solids primer. That totally defeats the purpose.

Use the airless gun you have.

I use a Kremlin 14-10 with an 06-114 tip (CAT 513) or a 12-174 (CAT 815) and thin 15% and first coat is usually pretty smooth. Not glass (2nd coat is) but a light scuff with 320 and all the nibs are gone.

Wrong gun for the application I'm sorry to say. That is your #1 problem. We have trouble spraying the stuff through a sata jet 3000. We usually use a Kremlin 10;14

Rich C,
Please stay out of this topic. You're adding no value. And, if you took the time to read, you'd see that I said I can't imagine MLC developed this product to perform as I'm experiencing.

They didn't develop the product to be applied like you are doing. It's a poor craftsman that blames the materials first.

[Comment removed as in appropriate - please avoid personal attacks and keep responses professional.]

I pretty much said the same thing as Rich. I think the gun is the problem.

I am not sure how much spraying you do, but I have had troubles spraying some very thick coatings with my Sata guns, they have the 1.8 tips in them.

I have seen and talked to a couple of people who have the guns that you can apply some pressure to the cup. Those guns seem to work good for the thicker materials. I have been shopping around for one for myself, would be nice for small jobs.

If anyone has experience with them or can recommend some good ones, please do.

To sVe yourself the expense of AAA if its not something youd use a lot in the future, youd most definitely be fine with a different gun or even an inexpensive pressure pot and gun. I have a graco finex gun that we keep on a 1 gallon pot and you can easily push even the most heavy bodied (we spray mostly waterborne) finishes with very little reduction. I think the gun was like $230 and a cheap pot is a bit less.

At least its a rig you could use for a lot of stuff without the investment in AAA.

I run either a 1.4 or a 1.8 depending on the material. Here is the gun:
https://pittsburghsprayequip.com/products/graco-finex-hvlp-pressure-feed-spray-gun
?keyword=&msclkid=5617ec22e3511711de328ea9513d1184

Like I say, That gun, 24PSI of clean/dry air, (depending on your compressor you likely wouldnt be able to run 100% duty cycle) and you'd be able to blast anything from heavy primer to fine finish in my opinion. I actually really like that gun it was a pleasant surprise for the price and nothing beats no gravity/siphon cup.

Another very inexpensive option though I know many here have poo poo'd them is a 3M Accuspray setup (PPS). You can swap out tips, disposable (plastic in the landfill sucks but..) You can run all the way up to a massive 2.0 tip. I have 2 of them in the shop and absolutely love them for smaller jobs, primer, etc.. The cleanup is a breeze and uses just a few ounces. They are not going to be a fine finish gun though for many cabinet jobs I would argue they would get someone through just fine.

AAA to me just wouldnt be a viable option unless you think you'll run it a bunch in the future but if you've got the money to burn have at it.

Most hi transfer 65% gravity guns(still labeled HVLP) would use a 1.9n/n for heavy bodied primers. Maybe 1.7n/n if you have ideal conditions and use more than 25% total reducer/catalyst.

That's assuming you have a high quality gun. You do not.

The problem with those lower pressure gravity guns is not atomization. It is getting thick materials thru a small hole with little air pressure.

I've got 4 Star(high quality lower cost) and 1 Sata gravity guns. Those are the pro versions of your gun. They would have the same n/n requirements.

MLC makes excellent products. We've been using them for 40 years. Unless that particular can, catalyst, reducer(only use the MLC one) is defective, you shouldn't have any issues.

Adam.
Consensus is that my black widow is the wrong tool for the job.
Just about to begin spraying with my airless.
310 graco FFLP tip
10 % MLC retarder.
10% lac thinner.
75 deg. 50% humidity

I’ll post the results this evening.

Timmer,
The airless setup you mentioned will give you fantastic results. If you are having problems with that rig then you need to look at your product.

Timer
If you're using a Graco pump,why are you thinning the primer?
You add 10% of flow enhancer,why the thinner?

Timmer,

I’ve got a good Graco pump as well. I’ve never sprayed anything other than waterborne house paints, BIN, and oil primer.

Please take note of your pressure. The FFLP tips do a great job on doors & trim

Another gallon consumed.

The airless worked great. They look good enough to skip the MLC resistant finish coat. A bit trickier to get enough paint on the little perpendicular shaker feature without overloading the balance of the panel.
I don’t know what my pressure settings were. My pump is analog.
The FFLP tip’s fan has a nice soft perimeter.
Way less overspray than my black stallion. You reckon that’s due to a lot less thinner?
Mastercabman,
There was no reasoning to my thinning ratios. I’ll leave the lac thinner out of the next gallon.

While purchasing the retarder, I asked about the MLC resistant I’m using for the finish coat. He said it levels much better than the clawlock. Would y’all recommend using the black stallion to spray it?

Clawlock should be used with 10% thinner minimum. I do 15%. Helps it level out. Resistant is old school. I haven't touched the stuff in years. Doesn't do well in a Kremlin pump. The shear causes micro bubbles.

Stealth was their answer to that and that's what I've been using since.

Turino is the newer pigmented, long pot life.

I am not sure how much spraying you do, but I have had troubles spraying some very thick coatings with my Sata guns, they have the 1.8 tips in them.

I have seen and talked to a couple of people who have the guns that you can apply some pressure to the cup. Those guns seem to work good for the thicker materials. I have been shopping around for one for myself, would be nice for small jobs.

If anyone has experience with them or can recommend some good ones, please do.

Sorry I am not sure how I double posted, and I don’t know how to remove either.
My bad.

Timmer,
Curious how much value you added to the post about claw lock with post #24? Please provide the same leniency to others that you did in that post.

I am not a cabinetmaker. My biz is sales of t-slotted aluminum extrusion to primarily companies building out automated manufacturing plants, such as Tesla, rivian, lucid. I also design, fabricate, and install finished product, such as safety enclosures, robot workcells, machine base frames, carts, tables……
These products have panels, base plates, work surfaces. I machine primarily plastics, composites, aluminum, corian, phenolic. And occasionally mfd.
Wife wanted a new kitchen. So I modeled it in 3d, toolpathed and cnc machined every part. Below counter only drawers. Double drawer slides. I will also machine the corian countertops. I won’t do the drywall.

Scott,

If your Sata gun is rated for 40psi it will have a hard time getting the hoop thru a 1.8.

If you have any real quantity of thick product to spray you can use a similar pressure HVLP gun hooked up to a small pressure pot. The 15-20psi pot pressure gets the thick stuff out and the 40psi atomlzes it.

Good thing is it’s way faster to clean than an airless.

You don’t need anything fancy. I am a big fan of the Star(Astro Pneumatic) gear.

Priming with the clawlock is complete.
Today was 79 degrees and 27% humidity in my shop.
I went with 10% MLC retarder.
Worked perfectly. Leaving out the additional lacquer thinner seemed to enable the paint to level better.
Again, thank y’all for sharing your knowledge.

first of all with all pigmented stuff you want to spray it with 1.8 gun, Harbor frieght does make one and it should be fine, I used to use Campbells, and they always said you have to use their thinners, it's BS other thinners work fine including economy, a you shouldn't need flow enhancer they all say 20% its more like 40% I never measure it just do it by eye, But I use chemcraft now and I have found its the best stuff on the market

Ummm, first you measure the viscosity of the catayzed primer. Add enough reducer to get it to 28 seconds in a Ford #4 cup. Use a 1.4mm needle/fluid nozzle. The material knob on the gun should be 99% open and thefan adjustment valve is adjusted so that your atomized fan is more or less an evenly dispersed spray looking at it from the side.

Those are your adjustments.