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Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops

8/3/22       
Oliver Member

Looking for the best finish to spray on a commercial bar top and tables for a restaurant. I'm spraying HVLP with an Apollo turbine. Table tops will be finished in the shop and bar top on site as its finished length is 33'. Material is Ash for what its worth.

8/3/22       #2: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
RichC

Are you planning on using a grain filler to close all the pores?

8/3/22       #3: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Oliver Member

Hi Rich,
I do plan on using some waterbased grain filler as well unless there is a finish that will fill with an extra coat or so. I'll add some new detail here... I sprayed nitro for about 5 years, played around with conversion varnish a bit and just did my first kitchen in all waterborne, Kemvar Plus opaque. Came out great and I loved not having all the solvents around but definitely a bit of a learning curve and I haven't sprayed anything clear waterborne. All that to say I'm at the beginning of my journey into waterborne finishes.
I called Sherwin Williams about 6 months ago and the guy I talked to then said I ought to use Sayerlack Hydroplus. Called them again today and a different guy said no way to that and I absolutely needed to use conversion varnish, hence why I'm here asking folks who aren't salesmen.

The tables are built and being sanded right now and the bar I'll start in a few weeks. Restaurant isn't opening until November at the earliest so I've got some time for trial and error.

8/3/22       #4: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Irwin

I use General Finishes High Performance and Endurovar regularly for wooden countertops on islands, desks, makeup varieties, etc…. I have 3 high use wooden countertops in my own home in daily use for the past nine years. One of them is our coffee bar which sees extreme use. These products spray and brush out beautifully and are extremely durable.

The other option out there that I have used but has a greater learning curve are the European hard wax oils like Rubio monocoat. Ive done several island tops with these and they are very nice as well.

8/4/22       #5: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
RichC

In a commercial situation, I would recommend something like Enduro Conversion Varnish from General Finishes. I would definitely use a grain filler on the ash.

https://generalfinishes.com/wood-finishes-professional/water-based-topcoats-and-sanding-sealers/enduro-conversion-2k-varnish

8/4/22       #6: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Vince

You should look into Renner finishes. They have a good selection of
2K waterbase finishes. Call Timberlane finish solutions they carry a good selection. tlfinish.com

8/4/22       #7: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Oliver

Both of these products look great, thank you. I'll look into them. Rich, I've only used grain filler a couple times on black walnut a few years back. Easy enough on that as the color of the wood was quite consistent but this ash has very sharp contrast between the sap and heartwood so I'm not sure how to approach that quite yet. 2 different color grain fillers?


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8/4/22       #8: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Jonathan Mahnken

Website: http://www.mahnkencabinets.com

The general finishes CV will not give very good color to the wood. I would seal with their endurovar gloss and then coat with the CV. My current favorites for tops are Milesi Hydrocote, Eco Steps Coatings Bar-master 2K, or MLC Magnamax H2O. The magnamax gives the best color. with the others you have to seal with one of their "ambering" top coats.

8/7/22       #10: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Mark B Member

ML Campbells waterborne 2K has insane build and filling. While you may not land on glass smooth I'd bet you'd be damn close in 2 wet coats.

I know people here tend to trash Target but their 9300 with crosslinker is a pretty bullet proof finish and its even exterior rated and Ive run it on bar/table tops many times. Even though its spendy its pretty much my default interior commercial trim finish because sills and extension jambs take a pounding from the sun and the UV rating at that price point (and water) is hard to beat.

The Campbell 2K is a budget buster and its ISO so your field spray is probably out.

8/7/22       #11: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Oliver Member

I ended up ordering some of the Renner coatings 2k waterborne from Timberlane Finishes. They assured me 2 coats of the sealer will fill the pores of the ash. The healthy skeptic in me led me to buy some aqua coat clear grain filler as well. I've got 22 tables to test different combinations on before the bar top so we'll see. I'll post results. Thanks everyone for your input.

8/8/22       #12: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Bart

Make sure you protect yourself when mixing and spraying. Waterbased 2k's use isocyanate based catalysts. I used GF's crosslinker for years before I realized I developed an allergy to it. They aren't good for you lungs. Gloves, full face mask and good ventilation when mixing and obviously spraying. Not childs play.

my2cts

8/9/22       #13: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Adam

Definitely read up on isocyanate hardeners if you are using 2K solvent or waterborne.

We've used the MLC 2K waterborne for countertops & desks and it is bombproof and looks great. You can do multiple coats very quickly. It also full hardens in a day so you can buff it. But it has iso's.

If you read the 3m respirator literature it gives directions on using their regular filters for iso based products. The long and the short of it is they do work but then stop working. Basically replace the filters for every job and you should be fine.

Most people don't take care of their filters regardless. Once opened the mask should be kept in an air tight box. The good gasketed tupper ware boxes work well.

8/9/22       #14: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Adam

I retract my former statement. Apparently, 3m decided that their filters should not be used for iso. Fresh air supply only.

We used to do plenty of Awlgrip boat jobs and use new filters for every job. That stuff is as aggressive as it gets.

8/9/22       #15: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Mark B Member

Not saying ISO isnt bad but you know the 3M yank on the filters with ISO came from their legal department and nothing else.

12/31/22       #16: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Oliver

Just an update and wrap up on this thread. Bar is installed and finished. Sealed it with Renner Coating 653 Sealer, sanded it back, put on 2 coats of the Aqua Coat clear grain filler sanding after each coat. 2 coats of Renner Coatings 688 top coat. Final product is amazing. Satin finish but extremely durable.

I attended a wedding at the bar last week( about a month after last coat) groom danced on the bar with shoes on and there are no marks. I cannot recommend this stuff highly enough.

I sprayed it with an Apollo HVLP using the 1.8mm needle and C cup. Definitely needed a very thorough cleaning of the gun with acetone/water after each spray session.

I got a 3m supplied air respirator and a bullard air pump to do this and I've begun using it rather than the facemask with filters for other spraying sessions as well. Have to drag an air hose around but it's more comfortable and I don't have to worry about filters so much just every few hundred hours on the air pump.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.


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11/7/23       #17: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Carl Nolte Member

Hi Oliver. Can you provider more detail on the respirator system you are now using? How do you like it now?

11/8/23       #18: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Oliver

Hi Carl,

I use a Bullard EDP-10 air pump hooked up to a 3m air hose and a 3m versaflo respirator hood. I haven't used my old facemask respirator since. Having the hose is a bit of a pain but I've found that the comfort of the versaflo vs a cartridge mask outweighs that. Don't have to worry about the fit or facial hair also. I got my air pump on eBay for a very reasonable price and for a few extra bucks some brand new filters. Hood is a bit pricey but worth every penny imo.

11/8/23       #19: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Carl Nolte

Thanks for the information Oliver. I have been wanting to spray Renner 2k products but am concerned about not having the necessary PPE equipment. BTW, that bar top is just amazing!!

11/9/23       #20: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Oliver

Thanks Carl, Trigo Wood Fired Pizza in Willimantic, CT- have a visit if it ain't too far.
I laid out probably $1800-$2000 for my whole set up. That also included a different brand 50' hose that I made a coupling for to spray on that site and have my air pump in fresh air. Haven't second guessed that expenditure at all.

11/9/23       #21: Waterborne Bar Top + Table Tops ...
Carl Nolte

Hi Oliver. I'm in the Chicago area, but if I ever get out that way I'll be sure to stop by. As we all know, pizza is part of the food pyramid ! LOL
I've been pricing out the pieces and it will set me back about $3k. But you just can't put a price on your health. I've also been looking into air assisted airless as an upgrade from my Apollo Precision 5 HVLP turbine.


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