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Stain/dye order

9/1/22       
Tony

I have a job at the samples stage and need some advice from those who know much more than I. I've built custom cabinets and furniture for 25 years and always did my own finishing. I've used MLC,Mohawk, SW, and currently ChemCraft which I have good access to. I'm relatively proficient (in that I've always managed to muddle through and hit the right color without any complete failures and please my customers) in using their dyes and stains to get the job done.
The job in question will be a full kitchen in walnut. Long story short-I need to end up with a color that will maintain a more "golden to nutty brown" rather than the orange-red-dark purple side. The material is steamed walnut, so the sapwood is currently a grayish golden (when wetted). Should I try to stain it all to a close brown color first, then use a lighter more yellow dye, or use a brown dye first with a more blonde-ish stain over that? Should I do any wash coats between? The more I think about it, the more directions I start going with it. Opening a can of worms, but I could really use some opinions about which direction and order to go in.
I've done numerous furniture pieces in walnut, but always just cleared. I'll be topcoating with 10 sheen CV. Spraying with HVLP cup guns for color, hvlp pressure pot on the CV. I have access to 844 colorants, and am decent at toning/shading when needed. I'd really appreciate some advice from your combined wealth of experience. All respect.

9/2/22       #2: Stain/dye order ...
Rick Mosher

The way I always did it was to waterfall everything by elevation and get everything the same color first. (Darken the lighter boards so everything is the same) I always sprayed my dye stain either NGR or water based. Now I would apply another coat of dye on everything to get very close to my final color, probably a yellow or orange and yellow mix in your example. You can apply as many coats of dye stain when spraying as you like, Now I would seal everything and do some final toning or shading to get everything to match my sample. Top coat and move on to next job.

9/3/22       #3: Stain/dye order ...
Tony

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6/23/23       #4: Stain/dye order ...
chemmy

If using dye, you should never seal the wood (if more than one application of dye is needed and applied over the first dye), especially if it's a different color.

Applying dyes, especially if it's to tone the wood a little more yellow, red, orange, etc., over a sealed dyed wood will cause a filtered chromatic affect, just like using a color filter on a camera lens..!
You can see this easily if you, for instance, use a yellow dye over a sealed and died wood surface that is then toned yellow under shop light to your visual acceptance, and then seal the yellow in, when taken out into direct sunlight, or even close to direct sunlight, you will see that the yellow has overridden the base sealed dye and looks extremely yellow as compared to shop light..!
This is because you are not allowing the dyes to intermixed together, so as to create the color you desired. Do your own experiments and you will see this yourself.! This is especially true when finishers use green to kill red, using the green over a sealed in red dye...Wet layering, which can be gun applied in most all cases will allow for dyeing multiple colors on top of each other on the bare wood, but you must wait between application till the first coat of dye is dry looking, non surface wet, before applying the next coat of dye.!! Pigment colors are not as sensitive to this as dyes, and you can normally get away with coloring over a sealed surface, with a little blue or green or yellow, as compared to dye.
But always check a sample of your work in semi or direct sunlight to make sure.! This has caused many a finisher problems when a kitchen, for example, during the daylight hours is viewed in both the kitchen lighting but also has daylight, indirect,... shining on say the upper and lower end cabinets that when viewed from that angle prom innately more blue/green/ or yellow etc., than when viewing the rest of the cabinets under artificial lighting.! Hope this helps....


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