Total Finishing Supplies

Professional Finishing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Gloss versus Satin

8/23/23       
Mitch Suber Member

Website: http://www.subercustomshutters.com

On one of the blind products that we now produce, we have been following a procedure we were taught by the previous owners of the company. For this process we use Minwax products for the clear coat. And we apply to different parts by both spraying and using a roll coater. We first stain the raw sanded wood, apply SandnSealer, sand and wipe, apply 1 coat of gloss, then 2 coats of satin. We like the product and we like the end result. We do not like that the gloss dry time slows us down and extra day to dry. Here’s my question. The previous owner of the product line said the coat of gloss made the final cured finished look thicker. If the difference between gloss and satin is appearance only, I’m thinking we might as well apply three coats of satin. We will not be burdened with keeping the gloss in inventory, satin dries faster and the procedure becomes simpler. Will the final appearance not be the same? We will test this in the coming days.

8/24/23       #2: Gloss versus Satin ...
RichC

There is a world full of better professional products than Minwax. I wouldn't know where to start with a recommendation since there are so many to choose from. I would bet you won't find a single customer that would notice any difference between the product with the gloss and the one without.

8/24/23       #3: Gloss versus Satin ...
Adam

The only time I've ever heard of people doing the gloss build coats and a satin/semi final coat would be in bright work on boats. In that case they are doing 5+ coats of expensive very high quality varnish. The idea is if you put on many coats of satin the finish will look cloudy. It's not generally done in the cabinet/woodworking industry. Maybe a piece of furniture by some perfectionist.

As Rich mentioned, Minwax does not make good products. They are all DYI, Consumer products. Generally, oil based that take a long long time to dry. We all switched to Pro grade fast drying solvent & waterborne back in the 2000's. You would be hard pressed to find shops using oil based products. Marine varnish is one of the last.

If I were you, I would spend some time finding a suitable waterborne product line that suits your needs. I personally wouldn't work in a shop with Minwax products. The stench of mineral spirits must be terrible.

8/24/23       #4: Gloss versus Satin ...
R Statham Member

Another vote against Minwax. I only use water based 2K's tinted as well as clears, and they are superior to what you're using. I would talk with your hardware distibutor, most of the big guys sell high end finishes as well.

8/24/23       #5: Gloss versus Satin ...
Mitch Suber Member

Website: http://www.subercustomshutters.com

Thanks for the recommendations to look into other products. I certainly agree there are better products out there for certain applications. We do use other waterborne products when we have a spray only situation, or we are producing shutters. We find the results we get with the Minwax is very acceptable and we also see on blind products made in the past that require rework, the Minwax does hold up well on window blinds. One problem we have with switching to other products completely, is we have to have a product that works well when roll coating. In the roll coating type of application, we see some products that spray well, but they don't transfer from the applicator rollers to the wood surfaces evenly and with the desired mils. Of course that might be accomplished with different rollers with a different shore hardness, so for now we prefer to to use the rollers we have, using the Minwax.
I think Rich and Adam have confirmed what I was thinking, and that in our situation there is no benefit to applying a coat of gloss followed by two coats of satin.

9/1/23       #6: Gloss versus Satin ...
Matt

Minwax quality aside, there's one other aspect that might be factoring in (but, I doubt it).

Gloss does not have any flattening agent in it, usually this is micro-fine silica. Satin does.

This does produce a very small amount of shading to each coat. I cannot see that one single coat would make a difference however.

Do test this, but test it on your darker colors especially.

Usually when people are doing the gloss undercoat, they do everything in gloss, and do a final topcoat of satin or dull. Most likely, the previous owner tried this and found it lacking in cure time, as you said.

Now, regarding Minwax. If you're using their off-the-shelf oil base polyurethane, there's nothing wrong with it, but I've found Sherwin Williams store brand oil based poly to be easier to work with. You may need to thin it more. I was buying it 15 years ago and it was twice as thick (ie, higher solids) and seemed to cure faster and stronger than Minwax.

Since it's the same basic technology, you might find proper thinning means it works just fine with your roll coater.

9/17/23       #7: Gloss versus Satin ...
Jeff Austin

The main reason you would apply higher gloss under lower or satin would be for clarity. If you only use the satin it may look more hazy because of the flattening paste in the lower gloss that isn't in the high gloss. But otherwise I'm not sure you are actually seeing that much difference but it may on darker colors.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Sponsors
    • SAMES North America Corporation
      Precision Spraying Solutions From Pumps To Complete Application Systems-Design and Manufacture of Process Equipment Including Airspray, Airmix, Airless, Rexson Dispense, Electrostatic and Powder Coat
    • Simantech
      New & Used Machinery, Supplies, Tooling, Parts, and Abrasive Products
    • TotalFinishingSUPPLIES.com
      Solutions and supplies from spray tips to spray booths for all your woodworking needs
    • Unique Machine & Tool
      Industrial Machinery for Door and Drawer Production
    • Carter Products
      Band Saw Guides, Blades, Wheels, Tires, Line Lasers and 2D Projectors, Wide Belt Sanding Accessories, Vacuum Holding Systems and More
    • EX-FACTORY INC.
      Offering New & Used Woodworking Machinery including Auctions & Liquidations

    Become a Sponsor today!