Total Finishing Supplies

Professional Finishing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Matador Paint issues

6/4/25       
Dan` Member

Hello,

We are a custom cabinet shop that relatively recently switched to Acromapro Matador paint. We have now had 2 instances where the paint can be scratched off edges with a fingernail without a lot of force.
We have ran many tests to try to fix and forcefully make the issue happen.
We have tried oversanding (polishing), not sanding primer at all, easing the edges just a touch more, less catalyst, more catalyst... Everything we can think of, including 2 back to back top coats as well as scuff sand between topcoats. Doesn't seem to matter what we do, the edges seem to be failing. Everyone I talk to leans towards sanding but we sand face and edges of 2 coats of primer with 320grit. We use their unisurfacer primer as well.

Anybody have any thoughts? The company has not come forward with any solutions except sand edges, more paint and paint within 8 hrs of sanding..
We apply 2 coats primer and a single topcoat typically. 5-6 wet mil on each application.

Thank you!

6/5/25       #2: Matador Paint issues ...
nicko

Are you edged breaking your sharp edges?

6/5/25       #3: Matador Paint issues ...
FM

What material are you painting?
What grit are you sanding to on your wood?
Have you tested adhesion after just primer? After your second coat of primer? I’m assuming you are scratching back to wood and not to primer.

Almost everytime I have ever tried 2 primer or sealer coats for a finish schedule it bites me in the butt sooner or later. Doesn’t matter if it’s solvent or waterbased. There is a reason topcoats cost more.

6/5/25       #4: Matador Paint issues ...
Jon

Are the colors mixed in a clear or white base? We have been spraying Matador for 20 years. The darker colors mixed in the clear base tend to be softer than ones mixed in the white base. The clear base is also catalyzed at a different rate. 12% for white, ( we do 4oz per quart) and 16% for the clear base.

Break the edges and don't over-sand them. We use 280g, and try not to polish.

We do one box coat of primer (unisurfacer) and one finish coat.

6/5/25       #5: Matador Paint issues ...
Jon

After reading your post more closely, I would would agree with FM above on only doing one primer coat. That is likely the problem.

6/10/25       #6: Matador Paint issues ...
Dan` Member

Yes we break are "sharp" edges, we sand with 320 on our final primer sand. If we go any rougher we see it in the dark colours. This paint is in a clear base and we catalyze 16%. Material is either HDF or maple. We aren't scratching through to raw wood we are just scratching the topcoat off the primer. We have done a test sanded with 320 and top coated right away with the same result. Even after 3 weeks we can still dent the topcoat with a forceful fingernail.
FM #3, what goes wrong when you do 2 primer coats?

6/10/25       #7: Matador Paint issues ...
FM

Okay, if it’s back to primer that is a completely different issue. My best guess is you
1) aren’t sanding between the topcoats on your edges
2) need to use a lower grit on just your edges
3) are missing your recoat windows and it’s showing up in this area where your finishes are going on lighter than the horizontal of the front and back and the finish it hot enough to give you some adhesion on front and back but not edges as it’s drying so fast.

Primer and two coats or sealer and two coats I have seen so many issues over 25 years of business that it’s almost a book. But generally poor adhesion, poor hardness, and wrinkling. Keep the primers and sealers to one coat is my advice.

6/10/25       #8: Matador Paint issues ...
Jon

I have found the darker colors in the clear base, particularly blues and greens, are softer than the colors mixed in the white base. On the dark colors sometimes we will do two coats of the matador followed by a coat of innovat. This is a very nice finish and is harder than the matador clear base top coat. They also make a clear primer that can be tinted called transurf primer that you can lay down a couple coats of this primer then top coat with innovat clear. Don't use clear surfacer. It doesn't sand nearly as well as the transurf primer.

6/10/25       #9: Matador Paint issues ...
Dan` Member

Thanks everyone for their input. How long would you say until the dark colour in clear base is hard enough you cant dent an edge with fingernail anymore?
I understand they say about 21 days to full cure in air dry.
We scuff sanded after 2 coats of dark green and added a coat of innovat clear thinking this would give us a hard layer but we can still dent and scratch the edge 5 days later air dry in about 25degC.

6/10/25       #10: Matador Paint issues ...
FM

Your denting and scratching are two different issues. Dark colors in clear bases for us take weeks to truly harden up. Doesn’t matter the manufacturer or the type of finish. They are good enough to ship and install in a week. I would just tell everyone to keep their fingernails away from them for another couple of weeks. You just have to live with this and work around it.

The scratching back to primer is a failure and has to be resolved ASAP.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Sponsors
    • Unique Machine & Tool
      Industrial Machinery for Door and Drawer Production
    • TotalFinishingSUPPLIES.com
      Solutions and supplies from spray tips to spray booths for all your woodworking needs
    • EX-FACTORY INC.
      Offering New & Used Woodworking Machinery including Auctions & Liquidations
    • Simantech
      New & Used Machinery, Supplies, Tooling, Parts, and Abrasive Products
    • 2Sand
      Abrasive Grit Sandpaper and Sanding Supplies
    • Carter Products
      Band Saw Guides, Blades, Wheels, Tires, Line Lasers and 2D Projectors, Wide Belt Sanding Accessories, Vacuum Holding Systems and More

    Become a Sponsor today!