Historic furniture price comparisons

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I am interested in learning a little more about how the relative cost of furniture has changed, or not, in the last 50+ years. As an example, a basic Risom chair, designed to be efficient to manufacture and affordable, now sells from Knoll for $679. As a furnituremaker, this seems like a very reasonable price. As someone living off of a furnituremaker's income, it seems expensive. I'd love to see the price list for Knoll's first catalog in 1942. Does anyone have any scans of old price lists from comparable companies that they'd be willing to share?
My general feeling is that folks pay comparatively less for furniture now, but feel like they are paying more. I wonder if the data holds.

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David R Sochar

Member

I'm no help on your direct question, but chairs are like clocks. Historically, they were rare and owned only by the wealthy. As time and technology advanced, they became a bit more prevalent. Whole towns could pool thier money for a clock in a tower, so everyone knew what time it was. As mass production evolved, and then the machine age, chairs became very approachable and common. Every one could afford one or more.

Today, clocks exist everywhere, even in miniscule chips, and chairs are molded in cheap plastics by the millions.

So people now will own many chairs in their lives, instead of a few good ones. We are taught to redecorate, and style is supposed to change, and as long as there are people with less than us to make the chairs, they will be cheaper.

mark

Thanks, David. I think that it's safe to say that chairs have been fairly common in the developed world for the last 50 years. I get your point about the current disposable furniture, but that's not really the stuff I'm interested in. Unless you're suggesting that today's plastic chair was the Post-War's Risom chair??

David R Sochar

Member

Not necessarily. The evolution is linear - price driven down as unit costs go down due to mass acceptance of lower standards. As in the designer that loves Ikea. Because it is so cheap you can throw it away when you tire of it.

Any 20th Century chair designer had to recoup large up front costs for their designs, and real world manufacturing costs kept the prices high. The 3rd world knock off shop has none of that, and cheap labor besides, so can do the same design for much less, tho not kosher so to speak.

Currently, I find it hard to separate celebrity designers - Starck, even Brad Pitt - from career designers that will produce a body of work in their design lifetime. It seems the celebrity culture eats up all the ink and the career joes end up working in other areas.

mark

Here's a random anecdote curtesy of eBay item number 131028307113: no affiliation.
Dunbar Furniture Corp. 4908 Daybed: $663.00 in 1954.
Adjusted for inflation: $5,771.03 in 2013.

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mark

Another:
Mr. And Mrs. Chairs: $352 and $292 respectively.
Adjusted for inflation using the CPI calculator: http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
$3,063.96 and $2541.69
Dunbar Furniture Corporation of Indiana

...can't read any of the others.

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David R Sochar

Member

So I guess the question is whether the price per percentage of net wages in the 50's is similar to the adjusted for inflation price per percentage of net wages today.

It sounds high, don't you think? I think pressure to lower prices has succeeded, overall. Wal-Mart and Ikea rule, and the American furniture manufacturing industry is now about 5% of what it once was. That said, Herman Miller and Knoll and others are doing what they have always done, without threatening to go overseas or come up with gimmicks like the Elvis Bedroom Suite.

mark

I think that those "designers who love Ikea" are caught in the same whirlpool as the working strapped who love Walmart. But to be clear, I'd sell my ink to Mr. Pitt so that he can add "designer" to his celebrity portfolio.

At some point in negotiating projects, you come across the apples to apples argument. I think that historic prices offer another way of looking at this problem. I've had customers tell me that they can see prices at retailers like Design Within Reach as reasonable for the most part, but when you get to those $2k plus Wegner chairs, they feel like they're being asked to pay a celebrity designer premium.
I'm interested in these Post-War designs because many are still being made, the ones that are represent good design and quality construction, and in general they are still relevant today. Does anyone else see this as useful information?

mark

Good point, David.
1954 per capita income: $12,000
2012 per capita income: $42,693
USA numbers
The daybed represents 18.1% of per capita income in 1954, and 7.4% in 2012. I think that this difference adequately represents the downward pressure and/or greater capacity for efficient production today vs the 50's.
Too many numbers here, perhaps I should have put this in "business".

David R Sochar

Member

Good point that the designers are on the same slippery slope as the rest of us with pricing.

What is going on the other side of this is the explosion of wages on the wealthy side. Wealthy was rare and moderate in the 50's, but today it is broad and extreme. The wealthy are much more wealthy and visible, as consumption has become a full time job for even average Americans.

So with all that wealth, why is not the designer furniture market red hot? Or is it, and we just are not aware of it - or a part of it?

I myself have been trying to justify an Eames chair and ottoman for most of my life. I could/would only buy the legit Miller product (and settle for Cherry), but the knock-offs tempt me. I should have bought one 40 years ago. Same for Apple stock, the last Studebaker, and so on.

mark

Yeah, there are too many macro-anecdotes about the "economy" and recent history to be able to nail down any meaningful relationships. Another popular one is that a family of four used to (50's-70's??) be able to live respectfully on one blue collar income. Nationalism? Remnant marketing BS? Truth?
Some income distribution numbers:
1954:
Top 5% of earners take home 16% of income
Top 20% of earners take home 42% of income
2012:
Top 1% of earners take home 19.6% of income
Top 10% of earners take home 48.2% of income
So, yes there is clearly a greater concentration of wealth in the hands of a few now, then there was in the 50's. Also of interest, income distribution now looks more similar to the way it did pre depression. Not sure of the effect of any of this though, except that wealth concentration creates less consumer demand for a given national GDP.
Still interested if anyone has any old price lists.

mark

Eames molded plastic armchair:
$419 from Herman Miller today.
$48.14 in 1954 dollars.
Not sure what the various abbreviations mean in the '54 price list.

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correy smith

George Nakashima was only getting $360 for a 60" round dining table in 1969. Unsure of what they retailed for in the late 80's when he passed but they were only worth half of retail once they left the show room floor only because of his prolific carreer ( 30,000 pieces??? does that sound even possible??) But now they have sold for 10's of thousands.

I think "back in the day" they held craftsmanship with higher esteem. The boomers and there after sought cheaper work, plastics, and now with middle incomes will reminiscent and occasionally purchase some good old craftsmanship, new or antique. Material items seem even more consumable and disposable when they are impulse purchased with plastic money. Not so 60~70 years back when a family might save for a couple years to buy a hutch to grace a dining room. Even then it was all production work. The good old days are really the mid 1800's. Wright and many others wrote at the turn of the last century about the down turn of quality in trade and craft during their current eras.
I think a $600 chair only seems expensive when it's competing with the latest POS phone that people seem to think they need , they just happen to cost about $600. Some how people will justify buying electronics over and over every two years or so but a table or chairs that will out last them seems expensive. The value in quality furniture is readily apparent but the competition is slick and deftly marketed. Remember when a decent computer was $2K? Operating systems obsolete in 2 years not supported much there after. The same person would balk at a $1000 coffee table that would have seen 5 or 6 laptops come and go by now.
Sad days for sure. It's good to reflect and see where your priorities are sometimes and what's worth the dollars you work for.
Where's this conversation going????
So I don't think quality furniture is really all that much more expensive now, but people would rather waste money on consumables. There are only so many $s to go around. In my house anyway.

markbattles

I'm interested in these Post-War designs because many are still being made, the ones that are represent good design and quality construction, and in general they are still relevant today.

Ethan Scott

Member

Beds, stool, chairs, and boxes were the main form of furniture in ancient time. The prices of this furniture varied. The bed constructed of wood was the oldest furniture. The stools were squared blocks of wood. Slowly, the arms were added in the stool and it was converted to chair. The chairs were widely used by people in their daily life. The price of the chair was affordable, even the lower middle class people had chairs in their house, and chairs were also found in the king’s court. People started using table as a wooden stand on which different materials could be kept, and there was a small table which could be moved to the couch. This is how people started using table. However the prices of table was very high in those days. Even today, the tables used in restaurant are quite expensive but still restaurant table is an essential component of any space. The tables complete the dining area and come in multiple designs, shapes, and sizes to make the restaurant area look amazing and stand out from the competitors. Irrespective of the prices of furniture, it continues to be a crucial part in designing our homes and even commercial offices.

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