
You are not logged in. Consider these WOODWEB Member advantages:
A personal "member history" that displays your posts at WOODWEB
Your forms at WOODWEB will be filled in automatically
Create your personal "My Favorites" page
Numerous automatic notification options
Learn more about WOODWEB Member benefits ...
Historic furniture price comparisons -- 1 -- 
10/30

I am interested in learning a little more about how the relative cost of furniture has changed, or not, in the last 50+ years. As an example, a basic Risom chair, designed to be efficient to manufacture and affordable, now sells from Knoll for $679. As a furnituremaker, this seems like a very reasonable price. As someone living off of a furnituremaker's income, it seems expensive. I'd love to see the price list for Knoll's first catalog in 1942. Does anyone have any scans of old price lists from comparable companies that they'd be willing to share?
My general feeling is that folks pay comparatively less for furniture now, but feel like they are paying more. I wonder if the data holds.
View higher quality, full size image (880 X 880)
10/30 #2: Historic furniture price comparison ...

I'm no help on your direct question, but chairs are like clocks. Historically, they were rare and owned only by the wealthy. As time and technology advanced, they became a bit more prevalent. Whole towns could pool thier money for a clock in a tower, so everyone knew what time it was. As mass production evolved, and then the machine age, chairs became very approachable and common. Every one could afford one or more.
Today, clocks exist everywhere, even in miniscule chips, and chairs are molded in cheap plastics by the millions.
So people now will own many chairs in their lives, instead of a few good ones. We are taught to redecorate, and style is supposed to change, and as long as there are people with less than us to make the chairs, they will be cheaper.
10/31 #3: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Thanks, David. I think that it's safe to say that chairs have been fairly common in the developed world for the last 50 years. I get your point about the current disposable furniture, but that's not really the stuff I'm interested in. Unless you're suggesting that today's plastic chair was the Post-War's Risom chair??
10/31 #4: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Website: http://www.acornwoodworks.com
Not necessarily. The evolution is linear - price driven down as unit costs go down due to mass acceptance of lower standards. As in the designer that loves Ikea. Because it is so cheap you can throw it away when you tire of it.
Any 20th Century chair designer had to recoup large up front costs for their designs, and real world manufacturing costs kept the prices high. The 3rd world knock off shop has none of that, and cheap labor besides, so can do the same design for much less, tho not kosher so to speak.
Currently, I find it hard to separate celebrity designers - Starck, even Brad Pitt - from career designers that will produce a body of work in their design lifetime. It seems the celebrity culture eats up all the ink and the career joes end up working in other areas.
11/1 #5: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Here's a random anecdote curtesy of eBay item number 131028307113: no affiliation.
Dunbar Furniture Corp. 4908 Daybed: $663.00 in 1954.
Adjusted for inflation: $5,771.03 in 2013.
View higher quality, full size image (640 X 960)
11/1 #6: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Another:
Mr. And Mrs. Chairs: $352 and $292 respectively.
Adjusted for inflation using the CPI calculator: http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
$3,063.96 and $2541.69
Dunbar Furniture Corporation of Indiana
...can't read any of the others.
View higher quality, full size image (640 X 960)
View higher quality, full size image (640 X 960)
11/1 #7: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Website: http://www.acornwoodworks.com
So I guess the question is whether the price per percentage of net wages in the 50's is similar to the adjusted for inflation price per percentage of net wages today.
It sounds high, don't you think? I think pressure to lower prices has succeeded, overall. Wal-Mart and Ikea rule, and the American furniture manufacturing industry is now about 5% of what it once was. That said, Herman Miller and Knoll and others are doing what they have always done, without threatening to go overseas or come up with gimmicks like the Elvis Bedroom Suite.
11/1 #8: Historic furniture price comparison ...

I think that those "designers who love Ikea" are caught in the same whirlpool as the working strapped who love Walmart. But to be clear, I'd sell my ink to Mr. Pitt so that he can add "designer" to his celebrity portfolio.
At some point in negotiating projects, you come across the apples to apples argument. I think that historic prices offer another way of looking at this problem. I've had customers tell me that they can see prices at retailers like Design Within Reach as reasonable for the most part, but when you get to those $2k plus Wegner chairs, they feel like they're being asked to pay a celebrity designer premium.
I'm interested in these Post-War designs because many are still being made, the ones that are represent good design and quality construction, and in general they are still relevant today. Does anyone else see this as useful information?
11/1 #9: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Good point, David.
1954 per capita income: $12,000
2012 per capita income: $42,693
USA numbers
The daybed represents 18.1% of per capita income in 1954, and 7.4% in 2012. I think that this difference adequately represents the downward pressure and/or greater capacity for efficient production today vs the 50's.
Too many numbers here, perhaps I should have put this in "business".
11/2 #10: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Good point that the designers are on the same slippery slope as the rest of us with pricing.
What is going on the other side of this is the explosion of wages on the wealthy side. Wealthy was rare and moderate in the 50's, but today it is broad and extreme. The wealthy are much more wealthy and visible, as consumption has become a full time job for even average Americans.
So with all that wealth, why is not the designer furniture market red hot? Or is it, and we just are not aware of it - or a part of it?
I myself have been trying to justify an Eames chair and ottoman for most of my life. I could/would only buy the legit Miller product (and settle for Cherry), but the knock-offs tempt me. I should have bought one 40 years ago. Same for Apple stock, the last Studebaker, and so on.
11/2 #11: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Yeah, there are too many macro-anecdotes about the "economy" and recent history to be able to nail down any meaningful relationships. Another popular one is that a family of four used to (50's-70's??) be able to live respectfully on one blue collar income. Nationalism? Remnant marketing BS? Truth?
Some income distribution numbers:
1954:
Top 5% of earners take home 16% of income
Top 20% of earners take home 42% of income
2012:
Top 1% of earners take home 19.6% of income
Top 10% of earners take home 48.2% of income
So, yes there is clearly a greater concentration of wealth in the hands of a few now, then there was in the 50's. Also of interest, income distribution now looks more similar to the way it did pre depression. Not sure of the effect of any of this though, except that wealth concentration creates less consumer demand for a given national GDP.
Still interested if anyone has any old price lists.
11/2 #12: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Eames molded plastic armchair:
$419 from Herman Miller today.
$48.14 in 1954 dollars.
Not sure what the various abbreviations mean in the '54 price list.
View higher quality, full size image (640 X 960)
View higher quality, full size image (640 X 960)
1/7 #13: Historic furniture price comparison ...

George Nakashima was only getting $360 for a 60" round dining table in 1969. Unsure of what they retailed for in the late 80's when he passed but they were only worth half of retail once they left the show room floor only because of his prolific carreer ( 30,000 pieces??? does that sound even possible??) But now they have sold for 10's of thousands.
I think "back in the day" they held craftsmanship with higher esteem. The boomers and there after sought cheaper work, plastics, and now with middle incomes will reminiscent and occasionally purchase some good old craftsmanship, new or antique. Material items seem even more consumable and disposable when they are impulse purchased with plastic money. Not so 60~70 years back when a family might save for a couple years to buy a hutch to grace a dining room. Even then it was all production work. The good old days are really the mid 1800's. Wright and many others wrote at the turn of the last century about the down turn of quality in trade and craft during their current eras.
I think a $600 chair only seems expensive when it's competing with the latest POS phone that people seem to think they need , they just happen to cost about $600. Some how people will justify buying electronics over and over every two years or so but a table or chairs that will out last them seems expensive. The value in quality furniture is readily apparent but the competition is slick and deftly marketed. Remember when a decent computer was $2K? Operating systems obsolete in 2 years not supported much there after. The same person would balk at a $1000 coffee table that would have seen 5 or 6 laptops come and go by now.
Sad days for sure. It's good to reflect and see where your priorities are sometimes and what's worth the dollars you work for.
Where's this conversation going????
So I don't think quality furniture is really all that much more expensive now, but people would rather waste money on consumables. There are only so many $s to go around. In my house anyway.
2/25 #14: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Website: http://v-dubfurniture.com
I'm interested in these Post-War designs because many are still being made, the ones that are represent good design and quality construction, and in general they are still relevant today.
4/12 #15: Historic furniture price comparison ...

Website: https://www.furnitureroots.com/restaurant-dining-t...
Beds, stool, chairs, and boxes were the main form of furniture in ancient time. The prices of this furniture varied. The bed constructed of wood was the oldest furniture. The stools were squared blocks of wood. Slowly, the arms were added in the stool and it was converted to chair. The chairs were widely used by people in their daily life. The price of the chair was affordable, even the lower middle class people had chairs in their house, and chairs were also found in the king’s court. People started using table as a wooden stand on which different materials could be kept, and there was a small table which could be moved to the couch. This is how people started using table. However the prices of table was very high in those days. Even today, the tables used in restaurant are quite expensive but still restaurant table is an essential component of any space. The tables complete the dining area and come in multiple designs, shapes, and sizes to make the restaurant area look amazing and stand out from the competitors. Irrespective of the prices of furniture, it continues to be a crucial part in designing our homes and even commercial offices.
1 -- 
Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Other Resources | Site Map
Buy and Sell Exchanges
Job Opportunities and Services Exchange
Employment opportunities and services within the woodworking industry
Lumber Exchange
A worldwide buy/sell exchange for lumber and wood products
Machinery Exchange
A worldwide buyer and seller exchange for woodworking machinery and equipment.
Classified Ad Exchange
Classified advertising for the woodworking industry (for advertisements that do not include machinery, lumber products and employment listings)
Forums
Adhesives Forum
Discussing topics related to adhesives within the woodworking industry
Architectural Woodworking Forum
Discussing quality standards and production of architectural wood products
Business and Management Forum
A forum for the discussion of business topics: from sales and marketing to dealing with difficult customers.
Cabinet and Millwork Installation Forum
Discussing all aspects of installation issues encountered by cabinet and millwork installers.
Cabinetmaking Forum
Discussing 32mm and face frame cabinet construction including fabrication, casegoods design, and installation.
CAD Forum
Shedding light on the all-too-often shadowy world of CAD.
CNC Forum
Discussing CNC (computer numerically controlled) woodworking equipment, software, and automated product manufacturing.
Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation Forum
Discussing topics related to maintaining a safe and productive working environment.
Professional Finishing Forum
Finishing issues for the production environment
Forestry Forum
The science and art of forest cultivation and timber management, planting, surveying, tree diseases, silviculture and timber harvesting
Professional Furniture Making Forum
Helping professional furniture makers improve quality, save time, and increase profits
Laminating and Solid Surfacing Forum
Issues related to laminating and solid surface materials and processes
Commercial Kiln Drying Forum
Discussions covering issues faced be commercial drying operations that process at least 750,000 bd. ft. of lumber per year
Sawing and Drying Forum
Discussing topics related to primary processing and drying of lumber
Solid Wood Machining Forum
Discussing topics related to the machining of solid wood
Value Added Wood Products Forum
Learn how to improve your output, find new markets, and boost sales of your lumber products
Veneer Forum
Discussing topics related to veneer processing, manufacturing, and fabrication
WOODnetWORK
An electronic discussion group for woodworkers throughout the world
Galleries
Project Gallery
Where professional woodworkers can post examples of their work
Sawmill Gallery
Professional primary processing companies display and describe their sawmill facilities
Shop Gallery
Professional woodworkers display and describe their shop facilities, products and equipment
Shopbuilt Equipment Gallery
Professional woodworker's jigs, rigs, and shopbuilt equipment
Other Resources
Industry News
Late-breaking news from all sectors of the wood industry
Video Library
Index of industrial woodworking related digital videos on the web
Auctions, Sales and Special Offers
Advertisers offering woodworkers discounted prices on good and services, and announcements of upcoming auctions
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
(return to top).
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
|
Your Name
|
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
|
Your Website
|
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
|
E-Mail Address
|
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
|
Subject
|
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
|
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
|
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
|
Thread Related File Uploads
|
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
|
|
|
|