Is the Festool worth it?

I am looking at the new virutex combo chop saw and rip saw. our work is mostly ultra modern here in south florida and I do not need a large crosscut capacity and I need to rip toekicks and fillers. this can replace my 12" Makita crosscut and bosch table saw. Harold.

How do you like the Makita chop saw?

Pat, We've got an old Makita 14" miter saw that has been very durable. Not a match to our Omga though.

Pat, the chop saw is a 12" sliding model. had it for years and it is great. We used to do alot of crown mouldings, but now that are work is all modern, its kinda big for just 4.5" toekicks and 2" top trim. The new Virutex model is a chopsaw with a table top and fence that uses the same blade. It should be adequate for our needs to rip fillers and toekicks as well as crosscut, all with one tool. Harold.

Yea Larry but how portable is the Omga?

Portable is a relative term. In this case relative to how big your gorilla is! It's too heavy but really accurate. We've got a variety of miter saws. Biggest capacity is a DeWalt slide, but you have to hold your mouth just right when cutting. That just might be the nature of the ones with all the adjustments.

Are you setting up an install van?

Yes, I need to get a miter/slide saw.

I don't like anything Dewalt makes.

The short list is Makita, Bosch, Festool

Unless I hear otherwise I have a hard time seeing the value of a Festool.

I like almost everything Makita makes, and the Bosh jigsaw and the Bosh portable table saw.

The new Bosh slide miter saw is neat as it uses a hinge system instead of tubes. But not sure it is the go to.

I owned the Bosch 12" dual glide for about 4 years. After fighting the dust collection with homemade shrouds even while hooked up to the vacuum I sold it off to help fund the kapex purchase. I didn't think the dual glide could be beat until I got used to the dual laser setup and accuracy of the bevel gauges. I'm about two months into the kapex and love it. The lasers wrap around non square moldings making it literally a walk up and cut scenario on the first try.

I'd give the kapex a shot, they give a 30 day money back guarantee.

Josh

Thanks Josh

Yes, Festool is worth the money. I have bought Hitatchi, Dewalt and Makita saws in the past few years. I got sick of adjusting fences at least once a month. I bought my Kapex 18 months ago and have never had to adjust anything, it is always dead on. I am going to buy another one to put in the trailer for installs. The best thing is, I don't have to have these conversations every years as to what saw I should try.

Thanks Daryl

I don't know about the laser aspect but most 12" saws I've used are about the same except......I like to pull the guard up a little bit with my thumb to see exactly where that blade is hitting. Sometimes 32's count. The dewalt guard is built so I can do that easily. The others that I've used aren't.

Thanks Joe, cept I hate all things Dewalt, I will say though the newer ones have a shadow line that is quite handy.

I bought the festool Kapex for the shop , was not impressed with the accuracy. One thing it does it kept its value on the second hand market. For onsite we have dewalts 717. In the shop we are going to the Omga saws . These dewalt 717 are as accurate as the Kapex. Maybe I was expecting too much from the Kapex , due to the success we have had with all the other festool tools

What Dan said. The kapex has slop (side to side) like all the rest of the saws so the user must learn to use the saw and not pull to left or right as saw comes down into the cut. It excels at dust collection though. The lasers are nice I guess but I'm used to the sneak up method anyway. I have an omga chop saw for the very important cuts. I'd get the kapex for dust extraction alone though. Other than that, I've been perfectly happy with a makita 10". 12" adds too much blade wobble. Add blade stabilizers and you're left with a 10" capacity blade plus or minus.

Thanks for all of the feedback.

I looked at the Kapex today.

The rep said that the saw is commonly horsed and not allowed to go at it's own pace which created/contributes to the slop.

The dust collection appears to be very effective.

The lasers are awesome and would be great for odd angles. I particularly like how fine the lines are.

The controls are also awesome particularly the micro adjustments.

Another factor is the weight as it is very light.

Although an intangible there is something about using German made machinery that makes it pleasure to use.

BTW you guys aren't saying you use an Omga in the field are you?

Check out the little Makita slider. It has a lot going for it as an install saw: light, very accurate, no deflection on the little blade.
The capacity is plenty for a typical install, and beveling only one direction never bothers me. I've finished site built stairs with it just fine.
The dust collection is very good too, at least as good as the Kapex.
I tried the Kapex, but returned it before 30 days. The only thing I liked about it were the large bevel scale, and the counterbalanced head when setting a bevel. A nice saw, but nowhere worth the money. Buy 3 little Makitas for less money...
Good luck,
Mark

Thanks for all of the feedback that was very helpful.

I bought the Makita 10" sliding miter saw with a Bosh stand.

Hitachi C10FSH is my favorite. I have had one in the shop 9 years now and millions of cuts and still accurate.

I have two of those Hitachis, one for 10 years as well, and have yet to use another saw I like better.

We had two of those hitachi saws , they were stolen in 08 , and not quite sure why we never replaced them , they were great saws,. One thing we did learn was we didn't need a 12" saw all that often. We have one if needed but a 10" we found is more accurate due to the smaller blade .Evven though we use the best blades possible there is more deflection in a 12" which causes a bad cut in certain woods.
The Kapex was great in terms of dust collection and a few other options.

I'm in the market for a new saw as well. The Festool is out of my price range.

Out of all of the new ones I liked the design and stiffness of the Milwaukee 12" slider. I have been using the 12 for 15 years and have a couple of Forrest blades so I won't be going for a smaller one.

The hinged Bosch wasn't stiff when fully extended.

I've never liked Makita chopsaws. Any other worth while options? Does anyone have any real world experience with the 12" Milwaukee?

So far the survey says:

1 Virutex

2 Omga (but you have to have a strong helper)

3 Kapex

2 agin the Kapex

2 Dewalt

1 agin the Bosh

3 Makita (not including me)

3 Hitachi

1 agin the Makita

I have the Festool in my home shop and I like it. I found DeWalt saws to be the worst. The fence doesn't come straight from the factory and the blade slides to the side if you try to trim less than 3/16" off the end of a board. The biggest reason I bought the Festool was for the dust collection. The other reason was that I had confidence that the fence was going to be straight. I don't mind adjusting the saw for a square cut, but that becomes impossible with a crooked fence.

I bought the Kapex for its light weight portability and portable dust collection. It does not travel well or at least I would not call it rugged . Too many plastic parts for such an expensive saw. I had to replace parts the first year because it could not take riding in my trailer folded in the vertical stand. I now travel with it laying down and adjust the bevel adjustment to rest against other parts so it is not changing position when going over rough roads.

One more for and agin the Kapex

I had the kapex but sold it. As others have mentioned, dust collection was excellent. Accuracy was pretty good. My biggest issue was the handle/trigger/button configuration. I just couldn't get used to the vertical style handle, felt very akward to me. Maybe I've just used the dewalts too long. I kept on a rather tall table, so that may have contributed.

The natural position for the arm and hand is in the vertical position.. Dewalts seem awkward to me. LOL Everybodys diffirent.

I think this is another one of the Dodge,Ford,Chevy,Toyota type deals

My Toyotas have never failed me but Chevy and Ford sure have.

If I were ever to buy another SCMS I would buy the Bosch Glide. The Kapex has too much flexure for my liking. Ive owned three bosch SCMS and currently use the 5412L but if I ever upgrade it will be to the glide.

just sold my kapex would never stay square and after 5 years needed new motor and gear box tried 2 new glides both sucked had to much play in the glide and the tables where not flat
bought the 780 dewalt works great dead on and holds it and love the light versus the laser

The comments about a 12" VS a 10" blade not having as good a cut get me. Unless there is slop in the arbor/pivots the blade change of 1" in radius really shouldn't matter. We don't install so our OMGA is for shop use. It is 300mm (12"+-) The cut is very nearly slick, both sides of the Leuco blade. It has been used as the main miter saw in a production shop for 15 years. Miter adjustments are easy and stay where put. A tad heavy @ about 50's.

I do not sell tools or work for Milwaukee, I have a cabinet shop and another shop where we do all our finishig. I could talk for an hour about all the great qualitys of the 12" Milwaukee.

Number one reason I chose that saw over all the other competitors including the kpex is the stiffness is superior to all of them. The sideways movement of your slide saw is where you win or loose on the quality and accuracy of your cut!

You can instantly compare the saws if you can test them all in the same place.

The key test is to bring the head all the way towards you, lock the slide, lower and "pin" the cutting head in the down position. Now grab the front adjusting knob ( left -right ) pivot control. With your other hand grab the cutting head . Hold the base firmly while moving, testing the cutting head for deflection!!

Milwaukie is stiffer, has less deflexion then any of them. The kapex design with their wide spread bars should have been the winner. Not so.

I can't believe how handy the digitial readout in one thenth of a degree is in speeding/adjusting my cuts . Let alone being able to return confidetly to my previous cut. Dust collection works great.

There are two mitersaws that beat the Milwaukee for stiffness, but they are in the $2500 to $3500 range and usually you only see them in shops.

A little late to the party.....

Just my two cents.....

Oh yes , I forgot to mention it has 2 lights, one on either side of the blade. The trouble with lasers are that in low light conditions the line is so wide and bright you no longer have a fine line for accurate cuts! Not all of my job sites are well lit. In commercial work often your ahead of the electricians.
just jim in Las Vegas

Good to know, if it had been 8 months ago I would have considered it.

Generally Milwaukee was a good brand but these days I go with Makita.

But I do agree with you about the stiffness which is not going to happen with a single pivot point. To achieve that you have to have an A frame design IMO.

Previously the winner was makita. And for that reason makita is the saw I owned and enjoyed. I really wanted them to win again as there new saw had a 15" slide. But not as stiff as the red saw. The Bosch was silky smooth and a truley new design, but once again not as stiff.

Years ago when our shop had a radial arm saw. No matter how I adjusted it, it would not hold square. I bolted the base to a cement wall. Then with a 3/4" sheet of plywood made into a triangle with the one side anchored to the wall just above the saw . I attached the arm to the plywood and forced it to cut square. That's all it would cut but it was worthless for anything else anyway.

If our work looks bad so do we.....I hate poor quality tools.....