Hey need another’s opinion that’s in the same field. I subcontract for a local Millwork installation company and we work for many Millwork shops in the Denver area. We do all commercial work ranging from hospitals, schools, offices. Anywhere that needs it. We are always busy and constantly swamped. I get paid 35 and hour, no benefits. I travel up to 160 miles round trip in a single day for work. More often than not 5 days a week I will travel this much. I work 50 hours a week, no paid overtime. But reimbursement on common materials, screws, shims, etc. All my tools are my own and I drive my own vehicle. I consider myself a well seasoned and efficient installer. Capable of doing most work I come across without issue. Very detailed and always looking for a way to tackle issues before they arise. Am I crazy for thinking I’m slaving myself away for someone else’s dime? Over the past two years I’ve been doing this I spent 15% of my income a year on just gas alone. And I drive an suv that gets 20 mpg.

I would think low for A metro like Denver, Whos pays insurance ?

Thanks for your reply. I pay about 100 a year for insurance I have kept since before working for this company. Mine is just liability. He does have insurance as well that includes workers comp. It is a small company and I work closely with the owner.

My understanding is companies don't provide worker's comp for their subs. In fact, I believe one of the factors the IRS considers in evaluating if a work relationship is independent contractor vs employee/employer is if the sub/IC is covered by the company's worker's comp.

If you are unfortunately injured, the insurance company may not cover you.

I realize this does not address the question you ask.

Move to Cailfornia and I'll hire you and give you better terms

Here in northern VT a competent lead carpenter should be making at least $30/hr as an employee with benefits. Maybe the market is cheaper around Denver but I don't know how you can keep your head above water at that rate as an independent subcontractor.

@ 73K a year for steady work you should be doing well. We all drive to and from work or job sites and that cost is always on ourselves regardless. Ask for more and you risk being replaced. I'm sure you also have side work on days off. A bird in hand......

BDSGHD- I can def understand that factor you’re talking about on whether or not being covered by the workers comp. Going off what I was told by my boss, he said the shops required it if he had people that were working for him on site whether they be employee or subs. That is def something I will have to ask about. This job/field has been a huge learning curve for me trying to figure out all the ins and outs and grey areas.

FAIRWAY- I truley appreciate the offer, I used to live there when I was younger and have since grown too fond of CO. I am curious though, what terms do you offer your employees or subs? If you don’t mind me asking…

KEVIN- Appreciate your perspective, this field def has its up and downs. Just felt like I have been in a takes money to make money situation with more the first. Adding in up keep of tools, vehicle, gas, etc, then Uncle Sam has to get their 30% minus deductions. After all is said that 70/80k plus starts to get a lot smaller when you count your ducks. I’m not sure how Denver compares to many other markets though. I just don’t always see the longevity of this lifestyle always on the road, the crazy long hours or grueling drives afterwards just to get home. Plans for a family in the future and being there are super important. Don’t get me wrong I appreciate the work and I do enjoy what I do or I probably wouldn’t have lasted this long.

And yes sir HARRY I’m always looking for extra work. Even had a second job till the end of last year for the weekend cuz hey I’m hungry. I understand what falls on me very well and is required to continue to be in this industry now, just having doubts. But I don’t know many woodworkers and it can be hard to have these convos with random guys in the field I might meet. Ive had the same thoughts about being replaced by someone else and I guess I was right to find a forum like this.

Thanks for all your replies. Happy Saint Patty’s guys.

The fact that you call the person you subcontract for your "boss" is telling. As an independent contractor you should be your own boss and set your own terms, have more than one source of work and understand your legal and tax situation better than you seem to. It sounds like you are really an employee who is being shortchanged. Again, maybe the circumstances in your area dictate that you operate this way, but it would be worth your while to look around for better opportunities before the music slows down or stops. Not meaning to be disrespectful but if you are a good craftsman and a hard worker you should try to find a situation where that will be better appreciated.

Installation is tough work and from what I have seen is often done by piece rate, especially in commercial work. If you are fast perhaps you can do better that way. On the other hand if meticulous work is your forte maybe you can sub on a time and materials basis for a "high end" (nobody thinks they are low end) shop that would better reward your efforts. Around here shops and contractors are overbooked, have a hard time finding good help and would jump at employing an honest, efficient and careful installer. At least you could have a heart to heart with your "boss" and see if he is open to improving your situation. Good luck.

What Kevin said!
Surely you're also billing for your travel time and mileage (65.5 cts/mile now)?
$35 sounds like a good installers rate as an employee. Employers pay another 23-30% of payroll to workers comp and employment taxes that they don't have to pay on 1099 subs. You're also having to billing/bookkeeping on your own non-billable time.
Good luck with your conversation

It does seem like you have a demanding work schedule and face significant expenses related to travel and tools. The fact that you work long hours without paid overtime and do not receive benefits can make it challenging to feel adequately compensated for your efforts.

find out what as an employee you can get paid in your area, 20 to 35 per hour ?, multiply that number by 1.25 to get Labor burden, like taxes and insurance and some holidays, then multiply that number by 1.5 to get your price per hour to cover your overhead. If you don't , You'll never have any money to fix the truck when it breaks down

I'm a w-2 employee of a large nationwide millwork installation company.

I'm not the world's best finish carpenter but I land jobs on time, no drama, and my crew stays happy.

I only bring my rolling tool bag with hand tools, they provide everything you can't check through an airport.

For that I get 30/hr +2.50 if I'm lead (usually am)
50-60 typical hours
Overtime after 8 every day
They fly me to the site, put me in a hotel, and pay for my rental car and gas.
$37/day per diem for food paid as a reimbursement.

I keep all my airline and hotel points which add up quick and use them for my fun weekend trips and holiday travel.

I have company insurance and a 401k.

If I drive to a job more than an hour from my house they pay 10/hr drive time and 0.60/mile reimbursement

Same mix of commercial clients pretty much.

If I want time off, I tell them what days I will not be available ahead of time and they don't schedule me.

There is some down time between jobs, unfortunately. For every 3-4 weeks of work I might end up with one unpaid week or a short week.

Our guys live all over the country and fly or drive to jobs. I just moved from Oregon to West Virginia and nobody batted an eye, I just fly out of a different airport.