Laminating and Solid Surfacing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

1/4” solid wood over and under mdf

9/30/19       
Al

I read some posts from awhile ago about laminating solid wood over a substrate like plywood. If I were to glue solid 15/16” boards up to let’s say 18”x36” and then slice them in half to 3/8” on bandsaw mill and then plane or sand them to 1/4”. Edge band 1/2” mdf with 1/8” then sandwich mdf between the solid wood. Giving 1” thickness total. Would this work for cabinet doors?
Thanks for any input

9/30/19       #2: 1/4” solid wood over and under mdf ...
David R Sochar Member

Only if you do it while standing on your head, on a chair, and while twirling plates on poles held by your feet.

And whistling "Dixie".

9/30/19       #3: 1/4” solid wood over and under mdf ...
Al

Down a little on this forum someone wanted to know how to straight edge 1/8” material for veneer glue up. Paul M responded he does thinner boards for glue ups for tops he makes. Maybe it works for him because the tops he makes are thicker
and they are held down. I doubt it would work for doors but thought I would ask.
David, your answer is just stupid. For as smart as you are you can be very condescending.

9/30/19       #4: 1/4” solid wood over and under mdf ...
Jared

Can you provide some context for why an elaborate glueup might be necessary? What problem are you trying to solve? Veneering pre-banded 1" MDF seems like an easier route, but maybe there's more to your situation.

9/30/19       #5: 1/4” solid wood over and under mdf ...
Al

I much prefer doing doors and drawer fronts with veneer on 3/4” mdf all ready done. However I think if doors could be made with a heavier veneer we could sell our cabinets for a much higher price. I’ve been building cabinets for years and never stop hearing I want solid wood from potential clients.

10/1/19       #6: 1/4” solid wood over and under mdf ...
Tom Gardiner

Have a look at special thickness veneers. 1/32, 1/24, and 1/16" are available in a range of woods.
What you propose is labour intensive, likely to cause problems in the preparation and I would suspect that the finished doors would self distruct. Definitely do some test doors before suggesting them to customers.

10/1/19       #7: 1/4” solid wood over and under mdf ...
John S

Your customers are asking for solid lumber cabinet doors. The first step in your process is to make a solid lumber "blank", then proceed to split it, sand it, and laminate it to both sides of a piece of MDF. You come out with one door, and lots of added costs. What is the value to the customer? Stability? That's an expectation. Aesthetically? Exactly the same as lumber or thin veneer. Calling it "lumber" instead of veneer? Sounds nice, but no real value. I'm very skeptical that customers will pay more for that construction.

10/11/19       #8: 1/4” solid wood over and under mdf ...
Mark B Member

Do they want "solid wood" or just the illusion of solid wood? Or just not PB core/thin veneer? Not sure I follow some of it.

If they want solid wood slab doors and are averse to possible movement issues and dont want battens on the back of the door then it would seem educating them with regards to the reasoning may be more the issue though thicker shop sawn veneers could definitely be a selling point.

My take away is that your shop sawn veneers would need to be thinner than you outline but definitely an option.

Not speaking for David but my only assumption for the snark is the issues of sawn veneers and veneer thickness, balanced layups, and the like seems to be so beaten to death we will likely be seeing it done on HGTV and the DIY network soon (if it hasnt been already, thankfully I dont have cable/satellite).

Ive sawn veneers on my bandmill a few times for the shop and you could probably layup your panels and get three veneers out of each with a good blade and a good running setup with some way to hold the blank (vacuum pad on the mill would make the most sense).

If you could come off the mill with 1/4" thick veneers that need just a pass through the sander before laying them up you could finish in the veneer range and get more yield per panel.

10/16/19       #9: 1/4” solid wood over and under mdf ...
David R Sochar Member

I apologize for the snarkiness. After getting some from a customer, I sometimes feel I need to pass it on. No help to anyone. I am sorry.
As for your plan, if you like it, go with it. I thought is fussy and odd, with the large glue up being resawn, when you have more control over grain and the whole by resawing more narrow boards.

Technically, the 1/4" on stable 'violates' the rules, but I think they are a changin'.

2/25/20       #10: 1/4” solid wood over and under mdf ...
dan summerhill Member

You are most likely setting yourself up for failure. The math is pretty easy. Use the shrinkage table that applies to whatever species you are using and know that, with absolute certainty, that your 1/8" veneer will shrink and gap. You can glue up at 1/8 but you will need to sand to between 1/32 and 1/16 to get stability. Wood moves. That never changes.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Today's Sponsors
    • KCD Software
      Powerful 3D Cabinet/Closet Design Software with Built-In Touchscreen Mode for Mobile Use with Best Production Practices Including Direct to Cut List, Cabinotch and/or CNC Machining
    • OMEC/Macoser Inc
      Exclusive Importer of European Woodworking Machinery Since 1988
    • Baker Products
      Industrial Woodworking Machines, Wooden Pallet Manufacturing Machines, & Portable Sawmills
    • Charles G.G. Schmidt Co.
      Tooling for Shapers, Moulders, Tenoners, Planers and Routers
    • iBiDMachinery
      The Nation's #1 Used Woodworking Marketplace - Buy and Sell Woodworking Equipment with iBiD!
    • Parts Cutter CNC
      CNC Cabinetry and Closet Parts
    • Salice America Inc.
      Leading Manufacturer of Functional Hardware for Cabinets and Furniture, Including Concealed Hinges, Drawer Slides, Lift Systems, Coplanar Sliding Door Hardware
    • Country Saw and Knife
      Complete Sharpening Services for Wood and Metal Saw Blades, Jointer Knives, and Bandsaw Blades
    • TotalFinishingSUPPLIES.com
      Solutions and supplies from spray tips to spray booths for all your woodworking needs
    • O'Shea Lumber Company
      Merchants of Fine Woods
    • Rangate
      Woodworking Machinery, Supplies and Knowledge
    • Rose Machinery
      Horizontal Band Re-rips, Standard & Custom Designed Machinery
    • Professional Machinery Group
      New and Used Machinery Serving the Needs of the Professional Woodworker

    Become a Sponsor today!