Message Thread:
Using old wood for new projects?
10/25/15
Lately I have had the opportunity to buy some wood from a couple of guy's that have their own portable bandmills.One guy has alot of nice walnut boards that have been in his barn for about 10-15 years.Another guy I talked to has cherry and walnut stored under a covered roof(open to the environment) for 5-8 years.Neither one has been exposed to rain or snow,just not stored in any type of climate controlled environment.
Assuming I get the moisture content to the appropriate level by letting it acclimate in my shop,and check/inspect for powder post beetles,is there any reason why this wood shouldn't be used for interior use?I would like to know if several years of temperature/humidity changes has a negative affect on wood.I live in Ohio,so there are a lot of changes throughout the years.Some of the wood looks pretty grubby from sitting out for so long,but once it gets planed a little bit,it looks good as new.I have alway's bought my wood KD from sawmill's,so this is a different situation than what I am use to.
10/25/15 #2: Using old wood for new projects? ...
What is "alot"?
Do you have a moisture meter? It is crucial that you check the current MC of that wood and get it down to an acceptable level for interior use before building anything with it.
My guess is that it will have to undergo some further drying.
10/25/15 #3: Using old wood for new projects? ...
Yes,I have 2 meters,a Wagner pinless,and a Lignomat pinned meter.I don't have a problem dealing with the moisture content,my shop is climate controlled,and dry enough to get it down to proper MC levels,I also don't have a problem inspecting for powder post beetles.I am just wondering if there should be any other concerns with wood that has been stored this way.
10/25/15 #4: Using old wood for new projects? ...
If the price is right then get some and plane it down to fresh wood. If you see pin holes, burn it.
Also, even though one might assume that the stresses have evened out over the years, sawing will reveal whether or not there are problems like case hardening or ring separation, especially in the cherry.
10/25/15 #5: Using old wood for new projects? ...
This is risky. The only sure indication is when you see the piles of powder and that means some ha e left, bred, and likely lAid eggs inn adjacent lumber.
The holes from PPB may take several year to appear. If you see holes after planning they can be from anobiid beetles...both make 1/16" diameter holes and tunnels. If you have PPB per eggs. It is hard to tell, maybe impossible, before it is too late. Do not bring risky wood into your shop or expose good wood to risky wood. Heat the wood interior to 133 F before.
Note that planing PPB wood can mean that the eggs are in the planet shavings and can hatch before you remove shavings from your shop.
I see more PPB in warmer climates.
10/25/15 #6: Using old wood for new projects? ...
Gene,
Is it possible to still have beetles in wood if there are no visible holes on any of the 6 sides (both faces,both edges,and both ends)?
Also,regarding case hardening from the previous poster,and that happen with air dried lumber?I thought that was only from kiln drying?
10/26/15 #7: Using old wood for new projects? ...
Yes...the insects lay eggs on the rough surface of the wood. The eggs hatch and the larva, which are very very small at this time, bore into the wood, begin to eat and grow, making tunnels about 1/16" diameter. Eventually, up to two years later, the insects bore to the surface and exit, breed again, etc. So, you can have PPB (the full name is lyctid powderpost beetles) without any obvious signs not he outside.
Regarding casehardening, air dried lumber will seldom have any. Although air drying can be fast enough to create excessive stress and stretch the wood so far it does not recover its initial size (which is what we call casehardening, which only occurs at high MCs, like above 50% MC), the high humidity that occurs every night in most locations will relieve the stress a little each night. over months, the stress is gone.
Note that a prong stress-test cut on air dried lumber can sometimes show stress because there is a moisture gradient and not because there is stress. The prong test requires no gradient.
10/26/15 #8: Using old wood for new projects? ...
For what its worth I made a king size bed for some folks a number of years ago that used wood from the family farm and had been air dried in the attic over the garage for 15-20 years, this was in Northern VA. The wood was cut to size from 16/4 to 4/4 which meant the panels were less than 3/4 after planing. Two years later I used more of this wood to build other furniture for them. I never saw any insect evidence. We moved from the area a couple of years later but I never heard from the client about any problems.
10/26/15 #9: Using old wood for new projects? ...
I also use wood that I dried in my attic. In the summer, it is over 133 F up there, so the wood is likely heated to this magic number.
10/27/15 #10: Using old wood for new projects? ...
Gene,
I have found evidence of insects in some of the boards,but only in the sapwood.I haven't noticed it anywhere else.Does this sound like PPB's?Is it possible they are isolated in the sap only?I cut the invested sap areas away on some of the boards and didn't see any signs of bugs beyond that.
10/27/15 #11: Using old wood for new projects? ...
Hard to say without seeing current activity (fresh piles of sawdust). However, it does seem more likely that these are ambrosia and not PPB.
11/1/15 #12: Using old wood for new projects? ...
Gene,
To be safe,I am going to heat treat this lumber,by making an enclosed area around the lumber pile (stickered),using foil faced foam board.The box will be 8' x 4' x 3'high.I plan on heating the inside to 160 degrees,for 4 hrs.Does this seem adequate?I did a search,and found some different posts you made about this,and it seems 135 degrees is the magic #,but it will take 160 degrees to get the core that warm?Also,do you think 3 250watt heat bulbs will be sufficient to get this size box up to the correct temperature?
11/1/15 #13: Using old wood for new projects? ...
I do not know if the bulbs will do the trick. Four hours at 160 is fine I believe. Not sure if insulation will take the 160 F.
11/1/15 #14: Using old wood for new projects? ...
Can this be done at any stage of the air drying process, or should it only be done when the MC is at a low level? I am just thinking for future reference.
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