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Message Thread:

wood movement

1/15/21       
Chase Melton  Member

i am building a14 ft conference of black limba it sets in a 1 1/2 angle iron frame around outer edge how much gap or clearence do i need to leave between wood and frame for expansion

1/15/21       #2: wood movement ...
Keith Newton

Youe question is to vague to get a good answer. Is the 14' across the grain, or down the length?
What is the MC of the wood now, and what is the EMC expected to be where it will end up?

1/17/21       #4: wood movement ...
Mark B Member

Surely to god 14' is the length. Regardless of the width or length the captive steel frame is a death sentence. Heck, what would the expansion be on a 4' top? 1/4-3/8" minimum?

Shrinkulator

1/18/21       #5: wood movement ...
David R Sochar Member

Bad design cannot be overcome by the statistical design parameters of the Shrinkulator. Wood is meant to float - allowed to expand and contract. If it is not allowed to move with normal seasonal changes in RH, then it will self-destruct somehow.
The OP needs a different design. When people that do not know about wood get involved in designing a large table, they always go to steel to allay their ignorance of the subject. Most likely, there is no reason for the steel other than to 'prevent warp'.

1/18/21       #6: wood movement ...
Carl

You can predict the amount of movement
using our Wood Shrinkage Calculator at the
link included with my response.

If Gene Wengert weighs in, I suspect he'll
remind us all that the amount of wood
movement is based on species, the
change(s) in relative humidity, and the
"style" of the board (flatsawn Vs. 1/4 sawn). What
I've learned after many years of paying attention
to Gene's posts .... if the humidity in the
room the table will reside stays the same
(climate control), and the MC of the table/wood
when put in service matches the EMC of
the room, then there will be no movement.

Not a likely scenario - the EMC (equilibrium
moisture content) is a finite value - if you
know the relative humidity of a room, then you
can accurately predict the what the moisture content
of wood will acclimate to.

A short snippet from a WOODWEB Knowledge Base
article on EMC:

-----------
0% RH = 0% MC = 0% EMC
30% RH = 6% MC = 6% EMC
50% RH = 9% MC = 9% EMC
65% RH = 12% MC = 12% EMC
80% RH = 16% MC = 16% EMC
99% RH = 28% MC (approx.) = 28% EMC (approx.)

Note that most heated homes and offices will run 6% EMC
in the wintertime and even a bit lower. In the summertime,
9% EMC is common. Outside in most of North America,
the outside is 12% EMC, summer and winter. In coastal
locations, 16% EMC outside is common.
-----------

So - if you know what the RH swing will be where your
table will reside, you can use the calculator to predict
the amount of wood movement.

As mentioned be others, a steel-bound wood table slab
will likely be a problem. You don't mention a width,
but as an example, a 36" wide glued up wood slab
of flat sawn red maple (a relatively tame movement
species) will expand (or shrink) 5/16" cycling between
6% to 9% MC. If the table is 9% MC when put in service
in that scenario, it would shrink 5/16 - if it is
6% MC when put in service, it would expand 5/16.

Hope this helps, and if we're lucky, Gene will
confirm (or correct) my thoughts.

Carl

WOODWEB's Wood Shrinkage Calculator

1/18/21       #8: wood movement ...
Chase melton

Top is 14ft long 60” wide in middle 40” on each end m/c 8% location southwest Us humidity is normally less than 20% I agreed to build top then I find out later it has a metal edge around it, my guess was to leave 1/4 gap on each side with total gap of 1/2 on edge and end thank you for your help

1/23/21       #9: wood movement ...
Gene wengert-wood Doctor

I am concerned about the average humidity where the table is located being 20% RH. If the RH does not change, then the moisture content will not change and so the wood will not shrink or swell.

Key points have been well covered above, and I would add hysteresis effect and that the tabular values are for perf3ctly flatsawn, which is not too common, so estimates are likely too high.

1/24/21       #10: wood movement ...
Keith Newton

Hey Chase, Whomever speced in the angle iron probably think this will make it stronger without knowing what the trade-off will be.

If I were dealing with that line of thinking, I would offer another approach. On large tops, I like to rout T-slots in the bottom side while its clamped together usually as the halves, which are already glued together. Then I wax the grooves so the wood can move on the T-metal or wood cross rails which are part of or connected to the base. This not only allows the wood to expand and contract easily, it will keep the top flat if any of it wants to cup.

 

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