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Subject: Re: Grinding to Axial Constant System for 5 head molder

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Message Thread:

Grinding to Axial Constant System for 5 head molder

3/19/16       
Scott

Using a few DIAGRAMS, can someone give me the simple explanation of the Weinig Axial Constant system for grinding profile knives?

I want to know WHERE on the knives am I keeping things constant?

How do the side knives fit into the axial constant system?

I understand the concept and benefits of the system - so I don't need explanations of why its a good idea - I just need to know HOW to implement it.

If there is a document out there that explains all this, pls post it or post a link.

Thanks!

3/19/16       #2: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
shaner

Go to Mirror Reflections Website. Russ wrote a bunch of articles about moulder and grinder setup,operation and troubleshooting. Very informative and always go back to them if I need to check something. He has a ton of knowledge and has helped me be more successful since I started.

3/20/16       #3: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Russ

Website: http://www.mr-moulding-knives.com

Scott
The Weinig axial constant system is built off of a 10mm or .394" starting point on all moulding knives and 20mm .787" on all moulding templates so you don't fall off the template the same time you end the knife.

It is also based off of the stops on the template carrier installed on the profile grinder and size of the arbor that the cutter head is placed on.

I have placed a link below that may help you, if you have any questions or concerns please just give me a call, contact information is on my website.

Thanks Shane for the mention.

All the best
Russ

https://www.mr-moulding-knives.com/information/axial-constant-alignment

3/20/16       #4: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Russ

Scott
Here is an article on how to set up your moulder axial constant after your have ground the knives axial constant.

I hope you have a better understanding on how the system is setup to save you up to 50% of your setup time.

Good Luck
Russ

https://www.mr-moulding-knives.com/information/axial-spindle-calibration

3/21/16       #5: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Scott

ok, i'm a newbie and I think I'm missing something here... it would seem that the axial constant would need to relate to the EDGE of the FINISHED PRODUCT. I did not see anything in Russ's diagrams showing where the finished product is in relation to things - the drawings don't even show a finished product. Even if the head had the 10mm spacer below, if I ground the finished edge of the molding in 15mm from the edge one time and 7 another then we'd still have to line things up with the particular knife when it is set up.

My question - in my drawing - which color 10mm axial constant is correct?

1. is it Blue - 10mm from edge of head to edge of fence
2. is it green - 10mm from edge of finished product profile edge to the fence?
3. is it red - 10mm from the edge of the finished product profile to the edge of the head?


View higher quality, full size image (1042 X 984)

3/21/16       #6: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Russ

Scott Green The below article may help you. Keep in mind these few things Profile Template begins 20mm from edge Profile Knife begins 10mm from edge Distance between template stop pins is 260mm using a 240 mm arbor with spindle nut installed. Please call if you need further help.

Article

3/21/16       #7: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Russ

Green Is the best picture but not entirely correct, the 10mm mm built in to the knife is always behind the fixed fence or below the bed plate by 10 mm. .000" or 0 mm is where the cutter head come in contact with the spindle base. Therefore you counter on the spindle would read .394" or 10mm.
Let's say for instance you own a Weining P23, the number stand for 230 mm or 9.062" of finished width, you could mill a 8.625" profile and if you move the counters to 000" you can get 9.062" s4s.
I hope that helps
Russ

3/21/16       #8: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Rob Scaffe  Member

Hey Russ
I didn't review your articles which I am sure are excellent, so my apologies if this is redundant. But if not maybe it will help.

I am assuming we are talking about a Weinig grinder and molder.


View higher quality, full size image (816 X 1056)

3/21/16       #9: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Russ

Rob
Perfect,
I did not have time to draw a sketch to illustrate, slammed here.

Nice Craftmanship on the Grandfather Clocks by the way, absolutely gorgeous

Russ

3/22/16       #10: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Scott

YESSSS! Thanks Rob. Your drawing was perfect to bring clarity.

Now that I see your drawing when I read Russ' nice explanation I understand it but your putting the profile drawing on there nailed it. Thanks! Basic stuff, but first time around I want to make sure I am setting things up right.

Russ - yours are excellent articles - why don't you clip Rob's drawing and drop it in? That would help visual learners like myself to more quickly grasp the written content.

3/22/16       #11: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Russ

Yeh
When Rob and I work together we make a pretty great team :)

3/22/16       #12: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Scott

another question - IN GENERAL is it better with a profile like I've sketched it above to have the thin side on the left and the straight thicker side on the right next to the fence? or does it make any difference?

3/29/16       #13: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
David Waldmann  Member

Website: vermonthardwoods.com

For the profile type you drew, in general it's better to have the thickest part at the outside. The reason is that the thinnest part is where the most wood must be removed, which means higher stress on the knives/head/spindle. The spindle is strongest nearest the bearings.

However, there are many times when this is not feasible, and I'm not really sure just how much difference it actually makes. It may be like the straw that broke the camel's back.

3/29/16       #14: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Scott

Thanks David, that makes sense.

What about some of the rest of you that run molders -how do you decide which side goes to the fence?

3/29/16       #15: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Russ

Scott
I use the the same theory as Dave mentioned, as time goes on you will realize from layout mistakes a lot comes into play when deciding which way to orient the moulding in the machinery, hold down issues, is the knife gonna mill away wood from the feed system, will the knife design hit the rollers, etc.
I can't speak for everyone but my experience in your question above comes from making many mistakes over the years, you learn what works best and what to stay away from.
All the best
Russ @ MR

3/29/16       #16: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Scott

Speaking of creep - wouldn't having the deep part on the outside (left) tend to push the profile toward the fence and conversely the thin side to the right push it away from the fence?

Trying to drink from the experience of the molder community here before I grind a bunch of knives wrong.

3/29/16       #17: Grinding to Axial Constant System f ...
Russ

Depends on the profile, if it was a beveled casing I would agree with you and reverse the detail with the small side toward the outside and simply use a reverse profile pressure shoe. But David's comment above is generally what I use as a starting point then I look for other issues from that point that might detour me from that decision.
Russ

 

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