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Subject: Re: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearout Woes

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Message Thread:

Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearout Woes

1/21/22       
Brent Member

I machine all my door rails and stiles from hard maple. I recently bought a new 5hp planer and knives to go with it... I'm having bad issues with maple chipping on during thicknessing. I have wood heat in the shop, so the m/c of the wood is real low. Yes, I've tried the usual techniques to reduce tearout.

Is a Byrd insert cutterhead going to solve my woes? It's not a cost issue, I just want to solve this issue in the shop asap!

Thanks, Brent

1/21/22       #2: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Bill

I believe yes. We have very little tear out even with crazy grain.

1/21/22       #3: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Tom Gardiner

Before laying out the money on the new head try setting up the machine so the knives, breakers, and rollers are at the correct height. It will make a world of difference in performance for any planer. You can google the generic specs for each relative to the knife height.
I have started to set up my knives in jointer and planer with a dial indicator. It is way better than relying on supplied jigs.

1/21/22       #4: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Dustin J Orth

Yes a spiral insert head will decrease tearout in maple, BUT the machine has to adjusted correctly as stated above. I have insert carbide in most of my machines and the ones without are on the short list to get changed. If you work with a lot of chip prone woods, get the insert style, you won't ever wish you had straight knives again.

1/21/22       #5: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Brent Member

Okay thanks all. Just checked: lead time on a custom insert head is 4months! :(

1/21/22       #6: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Adam

You care chipping maple because you are sending the boards thru in the wrong direction or taking too deep a cut. Insert carbide is the obvious solution. Keep in mind that straight knives have been used forever with great success. Insert takes all of the skill out of using jointers/planers

1/22/22       #7: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Richard

Brent, have you tried Hermance to see what their lead time is?

https://www.hermance.com/Industrial/HelixHead-Cutterheads

I was going to get one for my planer because I read good reports about them, I had to get some other stuff for the workshop and never bought one so I can't report on if they are any good.

1/24/22       #8: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Keith Newton

More importantly than knowing your planer is 5hp, sharing what the cutting angle and sharpness angles are might solve your problem.
You might solve your chipping by grinding a face bevel to get ~12º.

Or, If your craftsmen suspect a certain board has a lot of grain change, having a wet sponge handy to wipe the face down a minute or two before sending it through can make it cut a lot smoother. I was working with some fiddle back hard maple a while back that suffered a lot of tearout after the first pass, then had none after wetting it.

Wet wood has about half the hardness of KD.

1/24/22       #9: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Brent Member

Good point Keith. My knives are ground to 45deg (after I had them sharpened, I see the manual specs 30deg bevel). Can this difference in bevel angle contribute to the problem (ie: is the heel of the knife contacting the workpiece)?

For context: this machine has been completely gone through by me with a dial indicator, and all rollers are all properly positioned relative to the cutting arc. On straight-grained maple I get wonderful results; unfortunately, when my paint-grade maple comes on the lift, it's not all straight-grained!

1/24/22       #10: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Keith Newton

Brent, Here is a link to this subject on wood web that covers this better than I can. Your knives may be set in the head for 30º or whatever which may be fine for soft woods, but not so good for hardwoods. I grind a 20º face bevel on my jointer and planer since hardwoods are about all I do. This requires more power but it will do the trick.

https://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Knife_Grinding_and_Woodworking_Manual_5.html

1/25/22       #11: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
RichC

A face bevel completely changed the cut on my Yates American. When it was first delivered, it chewed up almost everything. I was told the head was made for soft wood and to put a 10 degree face angle on it. That made a world of difference.

1/25/22       #12: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Pdub Member

I put a Hermance HelixHead on our P180 and replaced the straight knife with on-board sharpener. It does an amazing job avoiding tearout and best of all, it's quiet.

1/28/22       #13: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Kevin Jenness

I second the suggestions for a face bevel on straight knives and wetting difficult wood. If you can increase the humidity in your shop that may help as well. I keep a couple pots of water on the wood stove which keeps the rh at about 35% even in the subzero weather we have here in VT lately.

I think a helical head will be an improvement especially if you do a lot of figured wood, but the above suggestions should help in the meantime.

2/11/22       #14: Insert Planer Knives to Solve Tearo ...
Acctek  Member

Website: https://www.acctekgroup.com/index.html

Maybe you can try the cutter head of the automatic tool changer.

 

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