Message Thread:
Do both sides of panels have to be veneered at the same time?
8/29/13
Another question while i am on the subject of veneering. I know panels have to be balanced, thus veneered on both sides. But do they have to be done at the same time? Reason i ask is, like we do with formica work, we like to veneer the back, then the edges , then the face, that way the face hides the seams of the edges. Will it work this way for veneer work or do you HAVE TO veneer both sides at the same time?????
8/30/13 #2: Do both sides of panels have to be ...
I don't know that they have to be done simultaneously, but I would band all your edges and then veneer the face and back at the same time anyway as it's just more practical and economical to do both faces at once.
JeffD
8/30/13 #3: Do both sides of panels have to be ...
If you are hot pressing the veneer, yes it is essential that you veneer both sides at the same time or the panel will definitely warp, trust me I learned this many years ago as an apprentice. If you cold press the veneer to your substrate you shouldn't have any issues. I would not roll the glue on any heavier than 3-5 mils.
8/30/13 #4: Do both sides of panels have to be ...
Since starting this thread earlier, the designer on this job had to make some changes ,,, that could possibly affect the height of my doors, but she asked if i can get the doors as close to finishing as possible,,, which to me means gluing both face and back at the same time , then edge banding after,, would that be ok? its 10mil paperback, i shouldnt have any problem where the edgebanding meets the face?
8/31/13 #5: Do both sides of panels have to be ...
You may see the line of the paper after edgeband. You can sand the paper down a little to reduce the thickness of the paper so the line isn't as visible. I personally like to edgeband first, but due to your circumstances this isn't an option. It will be alright. Worst case scenerio, the customer doesn't like the look and you may have to re-do the doors, but I'm willing to bet that if it's a good finish, no one will ever know.
8/31/13 #6: Do both sides of panels have to be ...
thanks rich, i totally agree with you. The other reason why i started having second thoughts about edgebanding first was i realized that no matter how tight i press the veneer with cauls/platens etc , some of the edges always seem to not stick well,, ,maybe like up to 1/4" back from the edge or so. So i figure, glue up the panel about 1" bigger to allow for those lose edges, then cut back to where i know its glued tightly. Btw, im using that pink FSV glue on 10mil paperbacked veneer to an MDF sub.
8/31/13 #7: Do both sides of panels have to be ...
I've done it both ways and 90% of the people out there wouldn't be able to tell the difference. As long as the seams are tight it should look good.
Not sure why your edges aren't holding though? That's a problem you may want to look into. Could it be your putting excess pressure on the middle of the panel causing the edges of the platen to pull away a bit? I think I mentioned already I use a vac press and cold press glue so can't help you on your setup. But I haven't had any issues with anything not sticking.
good luck,
JeffD
8/31/13 #8: Do both sides of panels have to be ...
thanks jeff! yes thats right you did mention you have the vac press etc,,, i am leaning towards investing in one. One more thing though, i think it also applies to the way you veneer, if im not mistaken. How long should the veneer stay under clamp/caul pressure before i can take it out and stack it and move on to the next panel? I cant imagine that i would have to leave the panels under the clamps for 24hours, that would make this job take forever to finish, not to mention i dont have enough clamps/cauls etc. any input?
8/31/13 #9: Do both sides of panels have to be ...
That's a good question Antonio and I have to admit I don't have a good answer:>/
With TB cold press or TB1 or 3 for that matter I generally leave them in the bag for 2 - 3 hours. Not sure if it's totally necessary, but I don't know how the vacuum affects the drying time of the glue? So I err on the side of longer clamp times. I do know that stuff seems pretty well set after 2 hours, though I usually wait until the next day before I do any milling. Without a press I don't see why it would be any different than a regular glue up....like say a door? I leave normal glue-ups in the clamps for 20 - 30 minutes then unclamp, scrape any glue, stack them up and do the next batch!
Of course if its curved work that's a different story! I'll leave that overnight just to be safe;>)
Now most of this is completely moot as your using a different glue which I have no experience with whatsoever. Therefore you need to look into how long your glue needs to be clamped up;>)
FWIW a vac press is one of those tools you'll wonder how you did without once you use one! They're a bit spendy to buy new, but if you do some homework and understand the way they work, you can cobble together a high quality press for about half of what a new one costs;>)
good luck,
JeffD
8/31/13 #10: Do both sides of panels have to be ...
Thanks jeff, here is the link for the manufacturers instructions. Thing is though i dont see ANY contact info for the manufacturers nowhere on the bottles of glue or anywhere online, its made by a company called custom bond. From what i can make out, looks like you can leave it under pressure for about an hour then deadstack it for an hour then let it cure for 24 hrs. I know deadstacking to mean you just pile your doors on top of each other, but seems like it can also mean you lay your doors down and put weights on top of them??
FSV glue instructions
|