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Subject: Re: Hairline cracks in Face Frames

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Message Thread:

Hairline cracks in Face Frames

8/19/22       
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://kootenaicabinets.com

Occasionally we get cracks in face frames, primarily in 1.5 inch stiles and rails used with our flush inset construction. rail to stile connection. I've not worried about it on doors, I think it can't be avoided. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. But do you think it's inadequate glue or the wrong glue? This is with Beech wood and we are in the inland northwest. The joint is glued and with a single pocket screw. Painted with pre catalyzed lacquer, Rudd Chromocat 680 in a semi gloss.

Thanks for any input.

8/19/22       #2: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Pdub Member

Same construction. We Bondo every joint at least once.

8/19/22       #3: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://kootenaicabinets.com

We let the frames dry overnight and then sand the next morning on our widebelt and then orbital sand. The joints are so tight there's no room for bondo, but sometimes we do putty.

8/19/22       #4: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Leo G Member

Glue must squeeze out a bit. Not gobs of it. It is best to wait a full 3 days before your final sanding. Putty the joints no matter what can't hurt. Even if you don't see it go into the joint it does. Let the primer dry fully before sanding, rushing will have it shrink. Block the joints pretty hard when finishing on all coats, helps fill any spaces.

And last but not least... wood moves. Sometimes it can't be helped at a joint. CV is hard and brittle and offers little to no flex. When the joint moves seasonally for years hairline cracks can develop.

8/19/22       #5: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://kootenaicabinets.com

Thanks Leo,
What do mean by "Block the joints pretty hard"? Thanks.

8/19/22       #6: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Leo G Member

Piece of sandpaper wrapped around a board to create a flat sanding surface.

I use an electric sander with a very soft pad on it. It doesn't do much to "flatten" the finish. I also have a block of wood with a thin pc of felt on one side that I wrap 320 grit sandpaper around. Makes a pretty flat surface to level out any imperfections in your finishing.

8/19/22       #7: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://kootenaicabinets.com

Ok yeah. Thanks

8/19/22       #8: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Leo G Member

Old school
LOL

8/19/22       #9: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://kootenaicabinets.com

Yes thanks.

8/19/22       #10: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Mark B Member

Your asking for an unnatural outcome to the process. No one has ever expected a joint not to move? Its, for the most part, impossible. You can fight it all you want... what the heck?... BONDO?..

Move to MDF frames if your trying to go for a non-natural face frame?

Ludicrous. This paint movement is great until you hit one of these issues and it costs the industry a fortune to supply something that was unrealistic to offer in the first place. You deserve you misery lol.

8/19/22       #11: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
RichC

Good time to use the search function. This comes up often

https://www.woodweb.com/forum_fdse_files/cabinetmaking/858276.html

8/22/22       #12: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Kevin Dunphy

Website: http://kdunphy.com

I did inlay doors for boats because of the locking hinges. I set up a radial arm saw and did lap joints with no issue also I biscuit the face frame to the cabinets
I think no matter what wood will move the paints show up any little thing because were getting so good at finishing getting almost like cars you see the smallest imperfection . But MDF is not the answer

8/22/22       #13: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Adam

pocket screws don't work you should mortise them if you want to do it right

8/22/22       #14: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Leo G Member

End grain to edge grain joint is still the same. Movement will occur and a hairline crack will eventually form if you use a hard finish such as CV

8/22/22       #15: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Mark B Member

Mortise and tennon dont mean squat. Hairline regardless.

8/23/22       #16: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Tom Gafgen

I wonder if a 2K urathane finish would be more flexible and not crack ?

 

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